Author Topic: Cows again  (Read 3101 times)

barewirewalker

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Re: Cows again
« Reply #15 on: 13:43:59, 23/09/20 »
The means of providing alternative ways should have been thought up 50 years ago when the traditional beef and dairy breeds of the UK were being increased by continental breeds.
From last March;
IMO too late and too little discussion on the ways and means of implementation. As usual the blame is firmly in the person of the landowner, they have persuaded the NFU that they deal with matters of Land Management and the NFU is responsible for production matters. The reluctance to admit that any alternative ways other than those RoWs established by the 1949 Act has been ignored.

There is no mention of any safety recognition in the CLA policy on access published in 2012 and heralded as common sense. How much common sense can be contained in a document that is not based on any proper research of history and modern day trends.
BWW
Their Land is in Our Country.

Dyffryn Ardudwy

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Re: Cows again
« Reply #16 on: 13:58:24, 23/09/20 »
I give wide berth to Cows and Horses.
Only the other day, i was a bit nervous walking up the path towards Drum, in the Northern Carneddau.

A fairly large group, around twelve i think, Carneddau ponies, with several fairly young foals, were in a rather frisky mood.

Two of them, were doing that aggressive backward kicking that horses are renowned for, so i remained calm and waited what seemed to be an age, for them to move on down the hillside.

There was no way i was going to approach them, in a can't care less attitude.


gunwharfman

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Re: Cows again
« Reply #17 on: 14:52:12, 23/09/20 »
Dyffryn - I find your approach is often a good way to avoid cow problems, it's just having the patience to just wait and let the cows move well away. I find that while waiting I keep out of their sight because if they see me they can often become inquisitive. I did it yesterday in fact. I knew the cows were in one of three fields, because the farmer ALWAYS leaves the connecting gates open. I could see where they were when I started my run so chose an alternative route and I then ran back to one of the fields afterwards. By now the cows had moved off to the opposite side of the field  adjacent to mine so I just ran on with no problems. It must be said that it doesn't work every time, just most times, and I accept that it may not be so easy when the area is new to the walker or runner. I am also more confident about cows when they are all lying down.

strawy

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Re: Cows again
« Reply #18 on: 15:43:17, 23/09/20 »
It all comes down to your own sense.
Farmers cant & will not keep a field "free & open" just for walkers etc.
Yes,a few can be less inviting,but overall i find they are fine,chatty & very informative.
Ive heard/read many cases of farmers being attacked by their own livestock,they know them & we dont.
1 bad apple,just like us humans,ever watched sheep "rutting each other" violent.....
Take a wide berth,avoid if possible,if not,take care,work your way around them.
I dont walk with a dog,maybe its them that set things off ??




Ridge

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Re: Cows again
« Reply #19 on: 16:31:48, 23/09/20 »
I often think that comparing one set of statistics against another subject doesn't actually help,
I agree which is why I said
I know that there is no significance between the 2 sets of deaths
I was using it to try to give us some perspective. If every time there was a road death 2 topics got started on the forum then that would be 10 topics a day.


The first post in this thread suggests electric fences along all rights of way where there may be cattle. I'm not sure how that works if the path is across a field but;


UK = 24,300,000 hectares
0.5 hectares required per cow. 9,600,000 cows in UK therefore 4,800,000 hectares of land are given over to cattle farming. Almost 20% of the total land area. I'm amazed it is that high.


149,300 miles of footpaths in Britain (I can't find the figure for Northern Ireland)


If the paths are evenly distributed then there are 29,860 miles of ROW across land used for cattle. That sound like a lot of electric fence (£1,345,540,336 at 28p per meter) and a lot of electricity to prevent 2 very tragic incidents a year. And that is fence on just 1 side of the path.


In the UK you are more likely to be killed by a hornet, bee or wasp than a cow.


Now all my figures are from the first thing I saw when googling and could be inaccurate and any accidental death is tragic. I still think that we require some perspective on the situation.

Dyffryn Ardudwy

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Re: Cows again
« Reply #20 on: 16:41:52, 23/09/20 »
I will just never forget that time, back in the very late 1970s, when i was crossing the fields near Penpedairheol, near Caerphilly.
Ive still got friends living there, who i visit now and again.

On approaching the gate, this very large herd of bullocks, came galloping at considerable speed, ever so curious to see who it was.

For around ten minutes they just went ballistic, running up and down the perimeter fence of this field, it was dead scary, they simply did not want to calm down.

Nothing on this earth, would have persuaded me to cross that field, or go through that gate, and i just cannot imagine what these animals would have done, if i was foolish enough to enter their field.

Ridge

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Re: Cows again
« Reply #21 on: 16:52:35, 23/09/20 »
I'm sure you did the right thing DA but that is one incident 50 years ago in a lifetime of walking.
I can think of a couple of times I've changed my plan, either slightly or significantly, because of livestock.
I'm not saying that all cattle are safe and people are being silly about them but more people die falling off cliffs so we should be looking to fence all of those before we fence off paths through fields of cows.

pleb

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Re: Cows again
« Reply #22 on: 17:15:08, 23/09/20 »
I'm sure you did the right thing DA but that is one incident 50 years ago in a lifetime of walking.
I can think of a couple of times I've changed my plan, either slightly or significantly, because of livestock.
I'm not saying that all cattle are safe and people are being silly about them but more people die falling off cliffs so we should be looking to fence all of those before we fence off paths through fields of cows.
Agreed. You can always stay Away from fields.

Dyffryn Ardudwy

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Re: Cows again
« Reply #23 on: 17:26:05, 23/09/20 »
Does anyone remember that Readybrek advert, donkey's years ago.
Children going to school on a cold winter's day, with this warm glow radiating around them like a halo.

Well, everytime, i go a walking in the remoter areas, where there's farmland and farm creatures, they for some reason, seek me out, and show their displeasure of me being in their vicinity.


Almost as if i am giving off this warm glow, of being timid and scared of their very presence.

Only a few years ago, whilst crossing the field above Porth Wen brickworks, the otherside of Bull Bay, on Angleseys coastal path, this herd of cows took a dislike to me, and galloped at top speed.

To make matters worse, i was halfway across the field, and seeing the cows were quite a distance away, i thought,  LETS RISK IT.

I am still convinced, i would have qualified for the 100m relays, in next years Olympics.

I ran so fast, hearing this stampede behind me, and only made it with inches to spare.

Its the same with canines, their jaws seem to be magnetized in my direction.

barewirewalker

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Re: Cows again
« Reply #24 on: 17:39:51, 23/09/20 »
I'm not saying that all cattle are safe and people are being silly about them but more people die falling off cliffs so we should be looking to fence all of those before we fence off paths through fields of cows.
Any means of making the thee countryside safer should be considered but in proportion to the level of risk. Farming has side stepped the acceptance of Risk Assessment on this issue of making further allowance for additional ways to protect an old fashioned notion of land ownership.


From the above NFU access article
Quote
The resulting trial highlighted how permissive routes can be a useful tool, as they offer an alternate route while keeping the original path open to the public. However, this is not always suitable because farmers are still vulnerable to criminal prosecution should anyone be hurt on the original path, asusers are still allowed to use it. It also means farmers would have to increase their insurance premiums to cover two public footpaths across their land.Temporarily closing a public right of way is a more suitable solution that has gained the backing of the HSE, and to do it the Highways Act 1980 needs to change.
On the other hand the issue of liability has also been overplayed. This has been used by the 'Lord of the Manor' faction of land occupier as a  goad to further their interests as well as the threat of criminal prosecution. Where lack of Duty of care has been proven then the consequences should be paid.

Good, properly targeted and managed risk assessment using the tools available from today's technology should be able solve many of these problems.  Look at the classified ads in the back of a landowners coffee table reading and you are more likely to find the modern day equivalent of a mantrap than you are to find software for protocols on safety management for livestock.
« Last Edit: 17:44:19, 23/09/20 by barewirewalker »
BWW
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cornwallcoastpathdweller

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Re: Cows again
« Reply #25 on: 21:11:50, 23/09/20 »
There is always a risk when out in the countryside wherever you are, i always do my very best to keep as far away from cattle as is humanly possible just in case they get spooked. 
Once they are on my BBQ however you'd have to beat me off with a very large stick.
Its all about commin sense with any powerful animal really.
one step then another then another then a bench - please?

tonyk

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Re: Cows again
« Reply #26 on: 21:45:59, 23/09/20 »
 This ebook gives a good insight into cattle behaviour.

 https://www.publish.csiro.au/ebook/chapter/9781486301614_Chapter4

 It is a very complex subject but the conclusion I came to is that mixing dogs,cattle and humans in the same field is asking for trouble.A lot will depend on how the cattle have been treated by their handlers and how fearful they are.If they have been abused by farm dogs the situation will be even worse as they will be fearful of both humans and dogs.

ninthace

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Re: Cows again
« Reply #27 on: 21:59:35, 23/09/20 »
We came across a field the other day with cows clustered round the gate.  Mrs N gets a bit twittery round cows so I went in first and did my best Farmer Giles impression to chivvy them back a bit - easy if you walk with 2 sticks as I do.  It worked a treat.  Once we were past they soon lost interest.  The following day on Exmoor we met a large herd of young cows that were decidedly frisky but then they ran off and watched us from a distance.  There was a lot of mooing as we left though, I think they were missing us.
I find young bullocks are the most curious and playful.  I have been "harrassed" on the odd occasion and have had to take a firm line as a result.  When I go out with my wife, I try to avoid plotting routes where we might cattle meet until they have got a bit older and more sensible.
Neverthess, seeing how my wife reacts to them I can understand how people can get nervous and panicky.  Often when we are passing through a field of cows, I spend more time managing her response than I do dealing with the cows.
 
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Little Foot

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Re: Cows again
« Reply #28 on: 09:24:56, 24/09/20 »
I was at the start of a walk with my son and small dog when we came to a thin field which had a public footpath going through it. About 30 meters away there was a couple of cows so I paused for a moment while thinking what to do. My mind was made up to finding an alternative route when suddenly one of the ‘cows’ started humping the other. I’ve no idea if other cows were in the field as it was angled so you could only see a short portion of it. I’m just glad we never entered it and got half way before being surprised as there wasn’t any signs stating a bull was in the field, like we saw at gates for other fields later on.


Just a thought (which wouldn’t have worked in the thin field outlined above), but in larger fields, couldn’t a fenced off path run along the edge of the field, so a farmer would only have to put in one side of the fence as the original wall or fence is already there? People could use that if cows were in the field or go the original route if preferred. Farmer would only be liable for the upkeep of the original path (other than keeping plants short), so if the ‘safety path’ got thick mud in it, tough. That keeps costs down to a minimum for the farmer and people are safer.

ninthace

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Re: Cows again
« Reply #29 on: 09:39:12, 24/09/20 »
One cow humping another does not necessarily mean one of them is a bull.  It is a means of showing dominance or sometimes I think they are just bored!
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