Author Topic: Cows again  (Read 4380 times)

Toxicbunny

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Cows again
« on: 21:02:21, 22/09/20 »
Todays news. I'm not going to go into it too much as its a friend of a friend. However I appreciate farmers have to graze livestock but its about time ROW were made safe with electric fencing to keep cows away from walkers. I dont trust cows and my family had dairy farms.
 https://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/news/people/richmond-school-teacher-killed-cows-while-walking-his-dogs-2980002

ninthace

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Re: Cows again
« Reply #1 on: 21:40:24, 22/09/20 »
Thread already running. http://www.walkingforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=40975.0
I am not sure I can agree with your sentiments regarding electric fencing.  I have experienced being confined to the righteous path by electric fencing and it is a miserable experience.  A single file march with no opportunity to avoid bad ground or dodge=ing overhanging vegetation.
Can I be just as controversial ?  How about not allowing dog walking in fields with stock in them? 
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Toxicbunny

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Re: Cows again
« Reply #2 on: 22:28:52, 22/09/20 »
Parts of the Yorkshire dales has ROW fencing cows off. I must admit I felt a lot safer too. Whether you have a dog or not sometimes cows will still run after you. The farmer across from me walks his collies through the fields and they don't bother him. Personally if cows are in field I choose another way even if i tresspass. I don't trust them and that's the best way to be I think. I've jumped a few walls due to cows.

jimbob

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Re: Cows again
« Reply #3 on: 22:40:29, 22/09/20 »
Ninthace is correct, dogs are a big threat to cattle and they will go for them. The farmers dogs are probably well known to the beast and not seen as a theat.
The following article explains it better than I can. https://www.countryfile.com/go-outdoors/walks/how-dangerous-are-cows-to-walkers/
Too little, too late, too bad......

Dodgylegs

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Re: Cows again
« Reply #4 on: 23:35:57, 22/09/20 »
Anyone watch 'BBC 2 Farming Life' tonight.... farmer saying two of his cows he wouldn't go near.


I'm with Toxicbunny on not trusting them, although the breed does make a difference to me... those dark brown ones need watching!


I've read on forum previously of peoples differing opinions, down to personnel experiences I guess.

pauldawes

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Re: Cows again
« Reply #5 on: 07:49:50, 23/09/20 »
Ninthace is correct, dogs are a big threat to cattle and they will go for them. The farmers dogs are probably well known to the beast and not seen as a theat.
The following article explains it better than I can. https://www.countryfile.com/go-outdoors/walks/how-dangerous-are-cows-to-walkers/


The presence of dogs certainly makes a fair number of cows more restive..my sister tends to pick hers up and carry it through the field, and generally that seems to have a calming effect. (Not an option with larger dogs, of course!)


 Ages ago when I was a kid walking the family dogs I actually used to let them off the lead in fields..they were well trained and never chased farm stock...and my “reasoning” was they could run a lot faster than I could if a quick exit was called for...it never proved necessary... cows back then seemed gentler..


But not sure that banning dogs from fields with livestock is remotely a proportionate response..it would effectively stop a large proportion of walkers from field walking. If it does come to that..I would hope that landowners and farmers accepted legal changes to make reasonable detours through other fields allowed.


Not sure what the answer is..but sure the old advice about just keeping calm, not showing fear, be assertive, etc doesn’t always work now. Personally I always look for potential exit points, alternate routes, etc when coming to fields with cows in, especially (of course) in calving season.

richardh1905

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Re: Cows again
« Reply #6 on: 08:07:01, 23/09/20 »
  How about not allowing dog walking in fields with stock in them?


That is a huge erosion of walkers rights you are proposing there, ninthace.
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ninthace

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Re: Cows again
« Reply #7 on: 09:25:07, 23/09/20 »

That is a huge erosion of walkers rights you are proposing there, ninthace.
I agree. My tongue was firmly in my cheek but it just seemed more practical, less expensive and more aesthetic than being made to walk between lines of fencing. It was just that most incidents seem to involve dogs.  When you think about it, you are assuming a right to exercise your dog on someone else’s property and unless you keep it on a lead and on the path, that is a trespass.  (Ducks for cover).
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Ridge

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Re: Cows again
« Reply #8 on: 09:26:22, 23/09/20 »
We hear about these incidents because they are comparatively rare.
In 2019 there were 1870 road traffic deaths and 157,630 road traffic injuries in the UK. We don't hear about them because they are so common. The only figures I can find for people being killed by cows is out of date but shows approximately 5 a year but 3 of those are farm workers.
I know that there is no significance between the 2 sets of deaths unless we know how many people go walking, and how often, and have the same information for driving. I am just worried that people are making suggestions which would have a huge impact on many people based on a very small number of incidents.
Cows don't scare me as much as horses do which I find much more unpredictable and harder to read.

gunwharfman

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Re: Cows again
« Reply #9 on: 10:10:21, 23/09/20 »
I often think that comparing one set of statistics against another subject doesn't actually help, I prefer to judge a subject on its own stand alone merits or otherwise. So for make road traffic accidents and cows, or flu versus Covid-19 for example is the best way to look at and then try to solve a problem? I still remember the time when I walked the Stevenson Way in France, about 115 miles and there was only one short section between two gates where human being and cattle mixed. The rest of the time we were separated by temporary stakes, or permanent ones and a length of wire. I noted then that the cows were used to this barrier and I wasn't bothered once. However, I am well aware that this way of dealing with the problem will not satisfy all cows!

I think I'm correct that most if not all recent deaths have happened because the human being had a dog with them? I don't have a dog but I've still been bothered by cows, but I suspect I would have been bothered much more if I did have one?

Although I've had my own run in with cows and have also been attacked, biffed in the chest and lifted off of my feet, the ecperience that guides me most was when I met a farmer on the Pennine Way who had been attacked by his cows. He told me he had cared for cows for 50 years and never a problem but in one split second he was trampled and pulverised into the ground by them. He was lucky that his farmhand was near who rescued him. He ended up in hospital and he nearly died and when I met him he was still covered in bruises, across his face head and whole body. He undid his shirt to show me, what a mess! I'll never forget him!

I also worry sometimes that some farmers deliberately put cows into certain fields, even they like some houseownwers I know can be so territorial and possesive about it being their land!

When ever I go walking or running I always carry an 15" horse whip with me, (just a fiver from Go Camping) just in case, but more to do with dangerous dogs really. A little tap, or just laying it on the animals back is all thats needed mostly, but if it became necessary I would thrash out.

strawy

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Re: Cows again
« Reply #10 on: 11:14:09, 23/09/20 »
How odd that this thread should open a day after i had a "moment" with cows..
Normally i avoid them,i will take another way if possible,i have my excuse ready,should i be accused of trespass,but this time i had no choice.
They were gathered at the gate i was to go through,i didnt dare open it so climbed it and "shooed" them away,they did move but as i continued on my way(staying beside a barbed wire fence/wall which i thought i could never have hurdled) i heard a rumble behind me,i turned and faced them,they stopped,continued on my way mostly walking backwards,my exit gate was diagonally right but i stuck to the fence(walking thru s8*t & mud)it somehow felt safer than walking across the field.
I made it to the exit only to see 2 more fields with cows in,thankfully they were well away from me & didnt take much notice.
We have to be very wary of these animals,they are normally very placid,i admit i often talk to them but am no match for them.
TCA.


richardh1905

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Re: Cows again
« Reply #11 on: 11:33:38, 23/09/20 »
I wonder whether the unfortunate man who died followed the golden rule of letting go of the lead(s) when the cows came for him and his dogs?
I would not hesitate to do so if I felt threatened. But then I have a very agile dog who could easily run rings around the cows - not all dogs could do so.
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tonyk

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Re: Cows again
« Reply #12 on: 11:38:03, 23/09/20 »
 The trouble is the article only tells us the cause of death,ie,trampled by cattle.Did he pick the dog up,leave it on the ground tethered to him by its lead or release it? In a dangerous situation with cattle its often best to release the dog as it will have a far better chance of survival if released to fend for itself  and will also act as a distraction.People often pick  dogs up to protect them,especially if the dog is small and this only gives the cattle one object to concentrate on and possibly attack.

 Whilst we do have to be concerned about eroding walker's rights we also have to use a bit of commonsense and accept that having dogs and cattle in the same field isn't really a good idea.
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GinAndPlatonic

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Re: Cows again
« Reply #13 on: 12:10:13, 23/09/20 »
I am very wary of any cows , especially with calves or groups of heiffers . I do not think that any more precautions should be take however  .

My plans have been frustrated on a couple of walks at times when confronted with large herds of cows but I would just rather accept things as they are and take absolute responsibility for my own and family`s safety , if that means a detour or change of planned route then that`s ok by me. I have done detours before and ended up with some great unexpected scenery .  :)
I just think some dairy farmers have enough on their hands without having to lay extra fencing along Prow`s any time they have to graze cattle in a particular field with a right of way running through it . Maybe warning signs should be obligatory , if not already .

Cows tend to be rotated from field to field so it is not as if they will block a Prow forever and a day .

I remember GWM saying he carried a short whip or very flexible cane ( of some sort ?) strapped to his ruck sack and be able to give any over zealous heiffer or cows a short sharp flick or two . After reading about the death of that Gent , I reminded myself to buy something like that very soon .

Edit : yes just re read this thread and realised GWM mentions he carries a horse whip...
Virtue is more to be feared than vice, because it's excesses are not subject to the regulation of conscience - Adam Smith

BuzyG

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Re: Cows again
« Reply #14 on: 12:43:32, 23/09/20 »
I wonder whether the unfortunate man who died followed the golden rule of letting go of the lead(s) when the cows came for him and his dogs?
I would not hesitate to do so if I felt threatened. But then I have a very agile dog who could easily run rings around the cows - not all dogs could do so.


Once spooked they are spooked for a while.  The cattle up on Dartmoor are peaceful lot. However a few month back we witnessed, from afar, a herd being startled by a lose dog, ill controlled by it's dumb keeper.  It was a good 20mins before we reached that point and it was clear they were still agitated. 


It's a small minority, but owners who can't or won't control there dogs near livestock should be dealt with harshly IMHO.  They are not. The only real threat is to the poor dogs themselves.


Awaits questions on definition of harshly. :-X