Author Topic: Slow Maps  (Read 1873 times)

WhitstableDave

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Re: Slow Maps
« Reply #30 on: 18:25:21, 16/10/20 »
No perhaps about it, that is a selfish stance to take. It is also doesn't help your current dispute. The more people walking in the countryside the more councils are likely to listen to walkers.

The argument goes; "Mr Whistable Dave, you want us to spend money maintaining a path that from what we can see, only you and a few others use?"

Alternatively it could go: "Mr Whistable Dave, you want us to spend money maintaining a path that from what we can see, is frequently used by many walkers"

Which one is more likely to get funding? 

In the current climate legal obligations, are not as clear cut.

Councils are not restrained by the lack of people walking in the countryside. They're restrained by a lack of funding. To demonstrate my selflessness, I'll happily vote for a party that promises to increase Council Tax substantially in order to better fund path maintenance. Perhaps we should organise a petition?

The Council's legal obligations are clear cut regarding my current dispute. The case I referred to is here:  Documenting the demise of another PRoW. Kent County Council has a statutory duty to deal with my complaint (not just a reporting of a blocked path). The Local Government Ombudsman is involved and councils really don't like that. In this case, it's not about footfall, but about ensuring the council carries out its legal duty.

(Back to selfishness... I find it ironic that my reason for wishing there were fewer people using footpaths at the moment is because of the lack of consideration shown by so many 'new walkers' towards me and my desire to socially distance. In other words, my selfishness is a result of other people's selfishness!)


shortwalker

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Re: Slow Maps
« Reply #31 on: 18:31:30, 16/10/20 »
The paths already exist but they have never been presented as a countrywide point to point network.  This network has to be put together from the feedback from the volunteers, redrawn and adjusted as necessary depending on their reports.  The paths then have to be assembled on a website so people can find and select routes.  The routes themselves have to be described and doucumented as well as links to public transport so people can get back to their starting points,  Downstream the paths have to be maintained (either directly or indirectly via interaction with the landowners).  Paths are living things and can become impassable for a variety reasons so temporary closures and diversions will have to be published.  And so on.


Well as I already new that (I do have a basic intelligence that lets me understand, that there is not much point in undertaking this venture without routes being publish (and surprisingly I also understand what will  need to be done, to get to that stage))


So I ask again, why is it more involved than you seem to think I and others are capable of understanding.

« Last Edit: 18:37:33, 16/10/20 by shortwalker »

ninthace

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Re: Slow Maps
« Reply #32 on: 18:45:15, 16/10/20 »

Well as I already new that (I do have a basic intelligence that lets me understand, that there is not much point in undertaking this venture without routes being publish (and surprisingly I also understand what will  need to be done, to get to that stage))


So I ask again, why is it more involved than you seem to think I and others are capable of understanding.
In that case I apologise and I have missed something.  Can please explain to me then what the estimated demand for Slow Maps is and how the things I have outlined are going to done?  Who is going to do the work and how it will be paid for both in the short and long term?
Solvitur Ambulando

shortwalker

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Re: Slow Maps
« Reply #33 on: 19:04:40, 16/10/20 »
Councils are not restrained by the lack of people walking in the countryside. They're restrained by a lack of funding. To demonstrate my selflessness, I'll happily vote for a party that promises to increase Council Tax substantially in order to better fund path maintenance. Perhaps we should organise a petition?

The Council's legal obligations are clear cut regarding my current dispute. The case I referred to is here:  Documenting the demise of another PRoW. Kent County Council has a statutory duty to deal with my complaint (not just a reporting of a blocked path). The Local Government Ombudsman is involved and councils really don't like that. In this case, it's not about footfall, but about ensuring the council carries out its legal duty.

(Back to selfishness... I find it ironic that my reason for wishing there were fewer people using footpaths at the moment is because of the lack of consideration shown by so many 'new walkers' towards me and my desire to socially distance. In other words, my selfishness is a result of other people's selfishness!) 
 


I am aware of council obligations. They also have a lot of other legal obligations that they do not fulfil, for various reasons. 


But you have to agree, that if more people had actually used the footpath you are in dispute over. It wouldn't have got in that state. So by default more people out walking can only be a good thing.


My contribution to keeping footpaths open, is a carry a pair of folding secateurs. And where I feel a footpath is being encroached on by brambles, nettles etc. I will cut it back. I do that because I accept that not everyone can or even wants to keep these paths open.












shortwalker

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Re: Slow Maps
« Reply #34 on: 19:15:19, 16/10/20 »
In that case I apologise and I have missed something.  Can please explain to me then what the estimated demand for Slow Maps is and how the things I have outlined are going to done?  Who is going to do the work and how it will be paid for both in the short and long term?


Freely admit I have no idea of the actual demand (no more than you could assert that it is needed) Again if you read the questions and answers on sloways site it may answer your questions.


https://slowways.uk/frequently-asked-questions/


I freely admit I know no more than what they have put up on the website, but I really don't see a problem with it.


If it goes "bang" tomorrow what have we lost?

pdstsp

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Re: Slow Maps
« Reply #35 on: 19:18:50, 16/10/20 »


If it goes "bang" tomorrow what have we lost?


Surely this is the point? Crack on, I say.

Strider

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Re: Slow Maps
« Reply #36 on: 19:37:15, 16/10/20 »
Shortwalker makes very good points. Signed up.
Not all those who wander are lost

cornwallcoastpathdweller

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Re: Slow Maps
« Reply #37 on: 20:43:22, 16/10/20 »
Well i've just signed up.


Anything that helps get people away from the tv, computer games, facebook or the pub is worthwhile in my opinion.


Im not bothered if the paths 'already exist' which they clearly do, the idea as i understand it is to encourage people to get out and about walking more, and given the proven physical and mental benifits then im all for that.


Looking simplistically, isnt a shorter city/town linking walk on existing paths (the object here), just a shorter version of an LDP which we all carp on about as part of this interest already?
one step then another then another then a bench - please?

WhitstableDave

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Re: Slow Maps
« Reply #38 on: 22:57:39, 16/10/20 »
...
But you have to agree, that if more people had actually used the footpath you are in dispute over. It wouldn't have got in that state. So by default more people out walking can only be a good thing.
...

Are you suggesting that if more people had actually used the footpath in question, it wouldn't have had a barrier of barbed wire, wooden poles, angle iron and rubble forming an impenetrable barrier at its entrance?

pauldawes

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Re: Slow Maps
« Reply #39 on: 06:12:22, 17/10/20 »
Are you suggesting that if more people had actually used the footpath in question, it wouldn't have had a barrier of barbed wire, wooden poles, angle iron and rubble forming an impenetrable barrier at its entrance?


Is that so unlikely a notion?


If more people tend to use a particular path, then there are more people moving stuff to get through, more complaints to local council if blocked, etc.




pauldawes

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Re: Slow Maps
« Reply #40 on: 06:18:54, 17/10/20 »
In that case I apologise and I have missed something.  Can please explain to me then what the estimated demand for Slow Maps is and how the things I have outlined are going to done?  Who is going to do the work and how it will be paid for both in the short and long term?


Is it really necessary to estimate demand in advance?


It might be needed if site creator saw this as a commercial venture and needed to make money. But if itís an enthusiast (for urban walking) seeking to help other potential enthusiasts...then it seems very reasonable to put it out there, and just see how many people use it.


The demand may well surprise.

Islandplodder

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Re: Slow Maps
« Reply #41 on: 06:43:55, 17/10/20 »
Why would you not want to walk to the next town or village? I remember it as a regular event when I was young. The pubs didn't have such an accurate knowledge of your date of birth as the local one, so we would stride over by the scenic route, and return by the easy path when we were a bit 'tired'. When visiting friends back in Yorkshire we still do it, though more with a nice lunch in view, usually the day after a big walk  when we realize we are getting too old for 2 big days in a row.

Islandplodder

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Re: Slow Maps
« Reply #42 on: 07:07:05, 17/10/20 »
The islands on which I plod are singularly lacking in paths, and most people didn't walk anywhere they didn't have to. A few years ago there was a footpath project, I think it was something to do with walking for health, and I was one of the volunteers who walked possible routes. A few were chosen to develop and they put up waymarks and the school made bridges over the worst of the bogs.
To everyone's surprise they are used, within a year there was a detectable path between the waymarks on the routes across the moor, and the footfall on the built paths kept them open.
I think experienced walkers underestimate how daunting it can be to set off on an unfamiliar activity, especially as we all keep telling them how much knowledge, posh gear etc they need to do something which they have basically been doing since they were 2. The demand might surprise us all.

cornwallcoastpathdweller

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Re: Slow Maps
« Reply #43 on: 08:51:52, 17/10/20 »
There are of course some similar routes linking cities already that have been 'developed' into well used trails, between Bristol and Bath being one, however these have tended to follow decommisioned railway lines and been organised by the authorities in the main. 
All this plan seems to be is to bring this down further to a 'lower' level and make more already exisiting  routes better known.   
A great idea, and down here in Cornwall where conventional walking routes between villages etc just arent known about, so leaving people (if they are mad enough) to walk down the centre of a dangerous windy country lane, a huge improvement and as a walker im all for it.




one step then another then another then a bench - please?

WhitstableDave

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Re: Slow Maps
« Reply #44 on: 09:27:14, 17/10/20 »
Are you suggesting that if more people had actually used the footpath in question, it wouldn't have had a barrier of barbed wire, wooden poles, angle iron and rubble forming an impenetrable barrier at its entrance?
Is that so unlikely a notion?
If more people tend to use a particular path, then there are more people moving stuff to get through, more complaints to local council if blocked, etc.

Very unlikely in this case. An encampment of caravans and vans was set up on 'wasteland' adjacent to the footpath. The entrance to the footpath was barricaded at the same time with barbed wire, etc. nailed in place, and the fingerpost was destroyed. I assume the new residents didn't like the idea of a footpath bordering their settlement.

It might be that Kent County Council is lacking in comparison with other local authorities, I don't know. I've been very active dealing with the Kent PRoW department and I've had a fair degree of success. I've also had complaints ignored and I know that reported complaints can often take years to process. As I've said, councils do not have the funding or staffing to deal with existing issues, so unless we're prepared to do something about that first, schemes such as Slow Maps will have difficulty being established.

So who'll join me in calling for a substantial increase in Council Tax in order to improve the resources available to PRoW departments?