Author Topic: Layering again!  (Read 1859 times)

Z3man

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Re: Layering again!
« Reply #15 on: 19:38:31, 27/10/20 »
VR Guide is a super jacket but without the pit zips I'd be quite dubious as it'll be too warm in many conditions, the light version (Alpine?) might work well for you if you find yourself wanting a water resistant layer with a light insulation aspect.  In some ways we're back to the 90s/early 00s and the DriClime tech from Marmot coming around again, the main difference are the more breathable face fabrics.

Just been out and bought the VR Guide tonight, haven't tested it yet but i am really liking it already, i think it is going to be perfect for me. I get cold quite easily so probably not going to be too warm for me, i will find out in the next few days.

Also it does have pit zips, and plenty of pockets.

Lovely quality and very well made, i can see why people rave about them.

I also have the VR Summit on order which is supposed to be the replacement for the Guide, it is not coming until Thursday so i will be able to make a comparison then. Both jackets are returnable so i can just return the one i don't want. I cant see the Summit being better than the Guide for my needs, but if it is i won't be complaining.

Dread

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Re: Layering again!
« Reply #16 on: 20:08:25, 27/10/20 »
I hate having synthetics or wool next to my skin, they make me sweat. I just wear a cotton (the horror!)  t shirt most of the time. Yes, I am from Newcastle! If it's wet I'll put my Precip on, if it gets chilly, like below freezing, then a light fleece.

forgotmyoldpassword

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Re: Layering again!
« Reply #17 on: 20:32:56, 27/10/20 »
Just been out and bought the VR Guide tonight, haven't tested it yet but i am really liking it already, i think it is going to be perfect for me. I get cold quite easily so probably not going to be too warm for me, i will find out in the next few days.

Also it does have pit zips, and plenty of pockets.

Lovely quality and very well made, i can see why people rave about them.

I also have the VR Summit on order which is supposed to be the replacement for the Guide, it is not coming until Thursday so i will be able to make a comparison then. Both jackets are returnable so i can just return the one i don't want. I cant see the Summit being better than the Guide for my needs, but if it is i won't be complaining.


Let me know if the Summit is a thinner jacket than the Guide as I'm interested in the comparison, I thought it was a direct replacement - which was why I was surprised it hadn't got pit zips.


Agree it's warm as toast and a great sort of stroll through the countryside jacket, just personally speaking I'm a bit of a furnace when I'm hiking!

Z3man

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Re: Layering again!
« Reply #18 on: 20:51:19, 27/10/20 »
I am expecting the Summit to be a lot thinner as it is less than half the weight of the Guide, 710g vs 345g.

I am expecting them to be two very different jackets.

This is a rather long review of the Summit https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=37SblsRQqEU

gunwharfman

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Re: Layering again!
« Reply #19 on: 21:48:40, 27/10/20 »
Thanks for all of the contributions there's a lot of experience in the comments to learn from. But for me, I'm puzzled about softshells, I've been reading about them today and a couple of internet reviews seem to suggest that they are just expensive fleeces? Is that a fair judgement? Other comments suggest that with a soft shell one less layer can be worn but which one? The stuff that I've read suggests that soft shells are not waterproof so if you own one I presume you carry and wear a waterproof of some sort as well?

The way I walk it is to have a waterproof with layers underneath (for when it rains) and a windproof with layers underneath, (for when it's not raining) so the idea of having and using a softshell confuses me.

I've hiked for a number of years, maybe if I'd bought a softshell in the first place I could have thought about torso clothing in a different way?

If you own a softshell and it rains is this when a single skin waterproof like a Marmot Precip become the obvious item to buy to compliment it?

I'm open to a different way of approaching layering but in order to do so, I still need to get a proper grasp of what a softshell is, what it does and what it doesn't do. I'll just carry on reading about the subject and maybe make a decision to buy one later in the year?

forgotmyoldpassword

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Re: Layering again!
« Reply #20 on: 23:14:11, 27/10/20 »
Firstly this is very much 'to each their own', there isn't a right way, just whatever way works for people.  This article by Andy Kirkpatrick seems to cover it rather better than I could.

pauldawes

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Re: Layering again!
« Reply #21 on: 06:17:10, 28/10/20 »
I think idea of a soft shell is that it will “survive” a light to moderate shower quite comfortably, and dry out completely quickly once shower stops, and is very breathable.


It’s therefore a “good fit” for a lot of our autumn and spring weather if you just want to go walking with a base layer and one layer on top of the base layer, and don’t expect extreme weather.


I use a Rab one I bought years ago (not sure model name...but no doubt not made anymore anyway) a lot..even in winter conditions useful as a mid layer.


Must admit I am “unusual”:on this forum, in that I don’t mind spending chunky money on mid layers.


I’ll readily admit that spending that money may not get you a MUCH better mid layer than getting a 10 quid Regatta fleece (good buy, I have a couple)..but I do a lot of walking, and do not mind a bit of expense for a small increase in comfort.


And decent  midlayers last a long time...that Rab soft shell has been used a lot over the last few years and is good for years to come.

gunwharfman

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Re: Layering again!
« Reply #22 on: 10:16:04, 28/10/20 »
pauldawes - I think I am now more like you since I made my personal decision about how I manage rain, I too am now more than happy to spend good money on baselayers and mid-layers. And yes it is an 'each to their own' view in the end but I'm just looking for ideas that perhaps I haven't really considered before in my quest for 'the best' and to keep my rucksack weight down.

I am confident about somethings, for example, I prefer synthetic baselayers when I'm hiking and camping, but only for one reason, they are easier to wash and more importantly they dry quicker. When I run I'm happy to use bamboo and merino baselayers because I can just throw them in the washing machine when I get home.

I like to wear a shirt with a collar, so that's been very easy to solve. Its the next layer that's always been tricky for me. From reading the various points raised, it does suggest to me that a softshell might be my answer? If I bought one I could then do away with the need to even think about fleeces etc, and from what I've read so far a softshell is easy to wash and to dry as well?

By doing this my maximum layering in cool to coldish weather could be, base layer, shirt, softshell and wind jacket. If it was even colder then I could also wear my down jacket over the softshell, plus my windjacket if need be. Buying a softshell seems to also offer the possibility of a little bit of weight saving, and carrying fewer items as well?

Because of the way I hike and camp, to cover my torso and to cope with all (or most) weathers I would then take with me two base layers, two shirts, one softshell, one wind jacket, one down jacket and one waterproof.

So going back to 'pauldawes' entry this suggests to me that if I go down the softshell route I need to give careful consideration to the warmth factor in particular.

And if it rains I would then use my waterproof.

I think lockdown is affecting my brain, I keep getting into all sorts of little projects to pass the time, so thanks to everyone for indulging me.


sussamb

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Re: Layering again!
« Reply #23 on: 11:46:29, 28/10/20 »
Think wearing a softshell on top of a baselayer and shirt isn't recommended, a softshell on top of a baselayer would be my preferred option, and some even suggest a softshell doesn't even need a baselayer.
Where there's a will ...

pauldawes

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Re: Layering again!
« Reply #24 on: 13:49:10, 28/10/20 »
When I started country rambles again about 15 years ago...after a break of many years..practically the first garment I bought...certainly the first expensive one was a Paramo Velez Adventure Light smock. (Around 170 quid at the time, now even dearer...)


I think I could put together an argument to say it (Velez Light) is an upmarket soft shell.


Certainly it’s incredibly flexible, with a thin base layer underneath I can wear it on a warmish summer day (loads of venting, better than than the bulkier Paramos in warm conditions) , with a warmer base layer I often use it in winter. (In England...I wouldn’t use it in some Scottish winter conditions...).


Not waterproof...but it pumps out water fast enough if you just keep walking to make sure you are comfortable even in long continuous rain.


From my point of view main problem with the jacket is that fabric rips relatively easily...had it repaired a time or two. Or three, four, or five!

gunwharfman

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Re: Layering again!
« Reply #25 on: 09:09:14, 30/10/20 »
I already own a Rab Vital windproof jacket and I've been looking at the possibility of improving my gear by buying a softshell. As I read I get the feeling that there is not that much difference between a windproof and a softshell or am I way off course on this? Some descriptions seem to suggest the real difference is between the thickness of the material? So if I owned a softshell would it make my windproof more or less redundant?

Apache

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Re: Layering again!
« Reply #26 on: 09:39:12, 30/10/20 »
I have a problem differentiating between a waterproof (hard shell) and a windproof. The waterproof is windproof, the windproof not necessarily waterproof - so why a windproof as well as a waterproof?


The proper softshell with a hood is meant to be the outer (and only) garment necessary in 3 season hill walking. It will be wind and shower proof where a fleece alone isn't. However when not active or when it is raining heavily then additional layers will be necessary. So think of it as a mid layer that is shower/wind proof.

pdstsp

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Re: Layering again!
« Reply #27 on: 09:50:47, 30/10/20 »
I would agree with that - I wear a Montane Sabretooth softshell in the colder months and find that paired with a couple of thin base layer type tops it is fine in virtually all conditions except heavy rain, and really cold - ie sunless windy snowy days on mountain tops - on days like those I will put a micro fleece underneath but still end up sweating like a pig.  In all other conditions it is perfect for me.


GWM you may have to think about a trip to a shop to look and try one on - though I seem to remember you wearing a black windproof or softshell on the forum meet last year?  Or is my memory way off?


WhitstableDave

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Re: Layering again!
« Reply #28 on: 10:36:27, 30/10/20 »
I have a problem differentiating between a waterproof (hard shell) and a windproof. The waterproof is windproof, the windproof not necessarily waterproof - so why a windproof as well as a waterproof?
...

I have an Adidas OTR running jacket that weighs hardly anything and folds into its own pocket. It works very effectively as a windproof and I take it with me instead of a lightweight (but much heavier) shell when rain is unlikely. It's moderately showerproof, but its real function is to add a little warmth in the wind.

(It was reduced to £28 from Sports Direct and a real bargain!   O0 )

gunwharfman

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Re: Layering again!
« Reply #29 on: 11:26:04, 30/10/20 »
For me, my windproof is more preferable to wear than my waterproof. I use my waterproof for one purpose only, to keep me dry when it rains. I hold the view that rain periods in the main are far, far less than dry periods so why do I need to wear a waterproof when I don't need to. In my case a waterproof is not the most important item of clothing, but my other clothing is. My windproof often allows me to wear less clothing and still be the temperature that I want to be, and of course it 'breathes' better as well and adds to my feeling of comfort.

On the face of it I could improve my windproof experience by buying a softshell but I am not convinced about this yet. I plan to visit our local Snow and Rock store soon and try a couple on, hopefully by doing this I can move my thinking on a bit.