Author Topic: Layering again!  (Read 1858 times)

Bigfoot_Mike

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Re: Layering again!
« Reply #30 on: 11:39:08, 30/10/20 »
I use my waterproof for one purpose only, to keep me dry when it rains. I hold the view that rain periods in the main are far, far less than dry periods so why do I need to wear a waterproof when I don't need to.
Try living in Scotland, Snowdonia or the Lake District, you might change your mind about the weather.

sussamb

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Re: Layering again!
« Reply #31 on: 13:27:56, 30/10/20 »
Even there I wouldn't wear a waterproof unless it was either raining or I needed it as a layer against the wind  O0
Where there's a will ...

Bigfoot_Mike

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Re: Layering again!
« Reply #32 on: 13:39:45, 30/10/20 »
Up here we only have 2 weather conditions. If you can’t see the hills, it is raining. If you can see the hills, it is going to rain.


We also have 2 seasons: light winter and dark winter. During dark winter, the rain sometimes turns to snow.

Z3man

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Re: Layering again!
« Reply #33 on: 19:45:09, 30/10/20 »

Let me know if the Summit is a thinner jacket than the Guide as I'm interested in the comparison, I thought it was a direct replacement - which was why I was surprised it hadn't got pit zips.

Agree it's warm as toast and a great sort of stroll through the countryside jacket, just personally speaking I'm a bit of a furnace when I'm hiking!

Had both jackets a couple of days now and yes the VR Summit is much thinner than the VR Guide, you can hardly tell you have it on.

I don't think it is fair to compare these jackets against each other really as they are so different. The Guide is a heavy duty full on soft-shell full of features, everything you could want but weighs over 700g which is nearly as much as my Paramo. Whereas the Summit is a minimalist jacket not many features and weighs under 350g, so very different jackets. They are both excellent jackets in their own right though.

To be fair to RAB, when i spoke to them they didn't say it was a replacement for the Guide, they just said it is the closest they currently do.

I have done a couple of local walks and i think the Guide is going to be too warm for me, so i am going to keep the Summit, it is growing on me all the time, the more i wear it the more i am liking it. I don't know how warm it is yet as the weather has been quite mild, but i will find out over the weekend when i will be going up in the hills and we are due plenty or rain and high winds so it will get a good test.

One thing that really impressed me about the Summit is just how waterproof it is. I gave it a shower test, yes i know that is a bit overkill for a jacket that isn't even supposed to be waterproof but i couldn't help myself, after all it only takes a couple of minutes. It preformed like a Gortex jacket it was that good, the water just bounced off it, when i had finished it was almost completely dry there was just a few specs of water on it that just shook off. There was no signs of wetting what so ever, not even at the seams, i was quite amazed. How long this will last though i don't know, obviously it is brand new and the DWR coating is working to its maximum potential, whether it will be like this in a few months time i don't know.

Also when i usually shower test a jacket they feel a bit clammy after a minute or so, which is totally understandable being in a humid warm shower. With the Summit i didn't get any of that clammy feeling it felt fresh and airy all the time.

So i am very impressed with the Summit at the moment, but i haven't tested it properly yet, but i will this weekend if all goes to plan.

This is my first foray into the soft-shell world and i am liking it up to now, i think this could be the answer to my over sweating problems, i am not expecting to eliminate the sweating but hopefully reduce it be a significant amount with this jacket designed to be super breathable.

Disclaimer- I am not trying to say this is a replacement for a Gortex jacket, just that the water beaded off it like a Gortex jacket. Obviously a Gortex jacket will be a lot more heavy duty than the Summit with its Pertex Quantum Air shell. I will always carry a hard shell in my backpack if there is a chance of heavy rain.
« Last Edit: 20:13:14, 30/10/20 by Z3man »

forgotmyoldpassword

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Re: Layering again!
« Reply #34 on: 11:05:37, 31/10/20 »
Appreciate the mini reviews.  Yeah, I think we're both in agreement - softshells aren't replacements for waterproof jackets but a softshell with good wind resistance and an intact Durable Water Repellent (DWR) layer is something you can have on all day in quite a broad amount of conditions.


In the case of the VR Summit they bill it as a 'winter mountaineering jacket' yet the CFM (air permeability level) of Pertex Quantum Air is 20 which would point to them expecting very fast alpinism style movement in cold conditions to max this level of breathability out.  The VR Guide uses Pertex Equilibrium which has a CFM of 10 (aka the Guide cuts wind twice as well, as you might expect for a full on winter softshell), and Buffalo/Montane Extreme uses Pertex Classic which has a CFM of 3 which is why they're great when going through a full winter storm, but you still soak the inside when you're climbing up something quickly.  By comparison most hard shells are around 0.5CFM and rely on different technologies to move moisture through.


Seems like this is Rab's answer to the very popular Patagonia Nano Air style of garment, and they've chosen to go for highly breathable face fabrics rather than the older VR gear which seemed to focus on being a quasi hardshell which manages sweat.  Makes for a superb 3.5-season jacket.

Apache

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Re: Layering again!
« Reply #35 on: 20:55:51, 01/11/20 »
I think that I may try a softshell. My walking is designed to be multi day, self contained. Weight is therefore important.


If I have understood the above comments a wind jacket is lighter and more breathable than a hard shell, but not as water resistant.


A softshell is more windproof and showerproof than a fleece but possibly not as breathable. I would be looking for a jacket with a hood to replace a polartec 100 fleece. I was thinking the Marmot ether dri clime hoody. Anybody have any experience of that or could recommend a similar softshell?

gunwharfman

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Re: Layering again!
« Reply #36 on: 09:54:32, 02/11/20 »
I think you have summed it up very nicely.

'If I have understood the above comments a wind jacket is lighter and more breathable than a hard shell, but not as water-resistant.' I think my Rab Latok fits this category well.

'A softshell is more windproof and showerproof than a fleece but possibly not as breathable.' I own a fleece (personally not keen on my one) and I own full waterproofs but I have never owned a softshell. The possibility of owning one opens up a whole new world of interest for me.

If a softshell offers 'more windproof and showerproof' qualities I wonder if it will improve the performance of a waterproof like a single skin Marmot Precip?

forgotmyoldpassword

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Re: Layering again!
« Reply #37 on: 10:44:47, 03/11/20 »
I think that I may try a softshell. My walking is designed to be multi day, self contained. Weight is therefore important.


If I have understood the above comments a wind jacket is lighter and more breathable than a hard shell, but not as water resistant.


A softshell is more windproof and showerproof than a fleece but possibly not as breathable. I would be looking for a jacket with a hood to replace a polartec 100 fleece. I was thinking the Marmot ether dri clime hoody. Anybody have any experience of that or could recommend a similar softshell?


Just to clarify, a wind jacket and a soft shell are two different things.  A wind jacket has no insulation and is basically a breathable, non-waterproof material which is designed to reduce the affect of the wind on whatever is beneath it.  They're usually very light and packable, and often come with a factory applied DWR (a spray-on water resistant treatment) which helps with light rain, at least until it wears off.  That said, a windproof is very useful as an outer layer because it lets the rest of your clothing keep you warm even in a breeze.


A softshell is typically something which you don't pit in your pack and wear all day as an outer layer or mid layer with a waterproof on top, and combines some level of insulation material and a wind jacket.  At the 'lighter' end there are jackets like the Rab Vapour Rise Alpine which is a minor level of insulation material and is designed to move any moisture from exertion to the face fabric (the windproof bit) which is then whisked away by the breeze. 


The warmer the jacket, it typically means it is using a less breathable face fabric (so less wind gets in to the jacket to cool you down) or it has more insulation.  DriClime is a time tested fabric and I've had mine for a while, but it is very much best used for exposed terrain in cold/dry conditions.  It is very wind resistant and provides a good level of warmth when you're moving with it, but the water resistance of the face fabric is quite poor and it acts a little like blotting paper once the DWR layer has been rubbed away.  This doesn't matter too much in most mild rain because the fabric keeps moving moisture towards the surface so you don't feel cold or damp and the wind blows it away - but because of this it needs to be worn as an outer layer and isn't particularly great as a mid layer.


If I was buying something in 2020 it'd depend on budget and how much use I intend to get out of it, the fact is that fabrics have come on a lot since the DriClime gear was released originally - perhaps it'd be worth looking at the Marmot Alpha 60 jacket which uses Polartec Alpha Direct 60 (somewhat equitable to 100wt Polartec Classic fleece), or the budget option would be an Outdoor Research Ferrosi (available on Amazon at the moment at 48 quid, which is the cheapest I've seen it).  There are some more 'gucci' versions like the Patagonia Nano Air for running/high output use as well as the Schoeller fabrics for scrambling or general mountain use - but for that price the Ferrosi seems like a great way to dip your toe in if you're curious about a light softshell you can layer under a waterproof when it starts tipping it down.

Apache

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Re: Layering again!
« Reply #38 on: 06:12:49, 04/11/20 »
Thanks forgotmyoldpassword. I have let Santa know that I would like a Outdoor Research Ferrosi.[/size]

pauldawes

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Re: Layering again!
« Reply #39 on: 06:37:15, 04/11/20 »
Thanks forgotmyoldpassword. I have let Santa know that I would like a Outdoor Research Ferrosi.[/size]


I wouldn’t rely on getting the Ferrosi jacket for 48 quid from Amazon.


For starters, that’s for a specific size/ colour combo, so may be wrong size for you, and offer may be very time limited. (Prices are over over the place for the jacket on Amazon...some prices quoted are well over 100 quid depending on size, colour, seller.)


Then you have to bear in mind that seller does not appear to be Amazon itself and there appears to be mixed feedback. I haven’t checked sellers own feedback carefully, but I would before hitting the buy button if I wanted the jacket...the price seems very low.

gunwharfman

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Re: Layering again!
« Reply #40 on: 13:59:37, 13/11/20 »
Just to report, I've dithered and haven't bought a softshell. Whilst looking at reviews online I noticed that my Rab Vital was described as a softshell, I've always accepted that its a windproof jacket. I have only ever used this jacket in the warmer months but during the past two weeks, I've been using it as I run off-road. I never realised how good and versatile it is until now.

I've used it on a couple of afternoons walks as well, worn over the top of my thin synthetic Alpkit anorak, it worked brilliantly, most surprised how warm I became. That's how I started to waver and to feel doubt about buying a softshell.

I'm now going back to the possibility of finding a replacement for my Alpkit anorak and have been looking at the Alpkit Griffin. Does anyone own one? If so what do you think?

Davidedgarjones

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Re: Layering again!
« Reply #41 on: 16:49:24, 13/11/20 »
I bought a Mountain Equipment "Switch Vest" in a sale which works well as the front has Polartec insulation and the back is just thin. fleece. They cost £100 new but as I recall mine was less than half that (Magic Mountain Autumn sale). With my rucksack keeping my back warm, in a chill breeze it works pretty well. My large weighs 197 gms. I usually have it with me in my rucksack.

Dave

ME's Description reads:

A hybrid vest with an insulated front and low profile grid fleece back for fast moving mountain sports.Highly breathable and fast drying POLARTEC® Alpha® insulation is combined with our lightweight 20D RS shell fabric in the front of the body for wind resistance. Pontetorto® Tecnostretch 187 panels in the back and sides minimise bulk and dry even faster after a strenuous ascent.[/font][/size]

[/font][/size]

lostme1

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Re: Layering again!
« Reply #42 on: 19:42:51, 13/11/20 »
I bought a Mountain Equipment "Switch Vest" in a sale which works well as the front has Polartec insulation and the back is just thin. fleece. They cost £100 new but as I recall mine was less than half that (Magic Mountain Autumn sale). With my rucksack keeping my back warm, in a chill breeze it works pretty well. My large weighs 197 gms. I usually have it with me in my rucksack.

Dave

ME's Description reads:

A hybrid vest with an insulated front and low profile grid fleece back for fast moving mountain sports.Highly breathable and fast drying POLARTEC® Alpha® insulation is combined with our lightweight 20D RS shell fabric in the front of the body for wind resistance. Pontetorto® Tecnostretch 187 panels in the back and sides minimise bulk and dry even faster after a strenuous ascent.[/font][/size]

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That sounds very much like my Mountain Equipment vest with a Gore Windstopper front and a thinner back. An excellent  item and till now I have not heard of a vest with a similar thinner back.
These boots are made for walking.... so long as the rest of my body agrees

wbmkk

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Re: Layering again!
« Reply #43 on: 09:17:16, 14/11/20 »
I remember once staying in Whitley Bay. The locals there seemed to need little insulation against the cold.


Ha ! .. I actually live in Whitley Bay although the real brave souls are usually off to the Newcastle nightclubs


Some NUFC fans (the Toon Army) go topless .. and the lads are just as bad  ;D


I was going to post a question about layering, but see this thread has a lot of information that I can read first .. Agh! what the heck, I'll ask it anyway


I usually wear ..


Cotton string vest, cotton checked shirt (must be checked) and a woollen jumper
Cotton Y-fronts, and a pair of jeans
Harrington jacket
Cotton socks and smart brogues


Are these suitable for walking / backpacking ? ;)


If not, what are good alternatives


thank you

ninthace

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Re: Layering again!
« Reply #44 on: 09:26:18, 14/11/20 »
You forgot the flat cap and the whippet. 😁


A pair brown or dark coloured stout corduroy trousers would be more suitable,  A gentleman does not wear jeans for walking, in fact a gentleman would not have jeans as part of his wardrobe at all as I can attest.
Solvitur Ambulando