Author Topic: Footspaths lost  (Read 2426 times)

barewirewalker

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Re: Footspaths lost
« Reply #15 on: 12:48:49, 04/11/20 »
What good will extending the deadline do if the indifference, stays the same. No one seems to have discussed the results of Natural England's lostways project, it certainly does not seem to have been flagged up by those posters who like to copy and paste links from newspapers without having opinions. More than 10 years have past and the fact that NE abandoned the experimental project to see if it is feasible to recovery lost ways legally through lots of individual courts of inquiry in single lengths of path.


I sense the lack of leadership, Andies asked if the Ramblers have a plan so why is there not links by those avid readers of the guardian to editorial that shows this. The real way forward is public shock / horror at the con trick landowners have played on this country and this forcing a 1000year embedded brainwashing to reverse a policy of self interest fueled by individual selfishness so that the rural economy can be supported by an asset that grows to suit modern needs.


PDSTSP provided a great example in his TR topic and I am putting together some maps and graphics to show an idea how black spots on the map (eg. how exclusions zones can have a negative effect on a local area access). Trouble is I don't work as fast as I used to, really needs a few younger people picking up some of the threads.

BWW
Their Land is in Our Country.

ninthace

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Re: Footspaths lost
« Reply #16 on: 13:09:39, 04/11/20 »
BWW I asked  "What do you see as the way ahead other than putting our full support behind the Ramblers' campaign?  How about a petition to extend or remove the deadline so there is sufficient time and resource to get these lost ways reinstated?"
Forgive me if I misunderstood your aswer but I understand you to say it is all too difficult and not enough people care.  Do I have that right?
You asked if the Ramblers had a plan. There seems to be one in
 https://www.ramblers.org.uk/get-involved/campaign-with-us/dont-lose-your-way-2026/how-the-ramblers-are-working-to-save-lost-paths.aspx
Trouble is it will take time and resources but they seem to be trying
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pdstsp

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Re: Footspaths lost
« Reply #17 on: 13:36:46, 04/11/20 »
Well, I've volunteered and donated. 


Funnily, the TR of mine which BWW refers to includes a potential lostway which appears on the Ramblers map, (the quality of the map from the ramblers site which ninthace has linked isn't great), but it does not seem to run from the blocked in wall which I photographed! 


There is a little time to get applications in now - so not all is lost, but the campaign will need feet on ground and brains engaged - lets hope lots of people get involved so that some positive momentum and publicity can be generated..

ninthace

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Re: Footspaths lost
« Reply #18 on: 13:44:42, 04/11/20 »
Well, I've volunteered and donated. 


Funnily, the TR of mine which BWW refers to includes a potential lostway which appears on the Ramblers map, (the quality of the map from the ramblers site which ninthace has linked isn't great), but it does not seem to run from the blocked in wall which I photographed! 


There is a little time to get applications in now - so not all is lost, but the campaign will need feet on ground and brains engaged - lets hope lots of people get involved so that some positive momentum and publicity can be generated..
Perhaps people power will succeed where Natural England didn't.
Power to the People!  As the Tooting Popular Front used to say.
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barewirewalker

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Re: Footspaths lost
« Reply #19 on: 13:51:52, 04/11/20 »
I will not join the ramblers, because on a basic pension and savings I do not have the resources to have them drawing a regular payment off me. They are 20 years too late with these measure, but they have at last started to make the right moves.
I would like to think that the ideas I have and others of us like us express have a chance to get through to an organization that does not have a very good record on communication, but is the crowd funding appeal is specific towards recovery of lost ways with a program with reasonable chance of success I will donate a 3 figure sum. To be successful they need to expose the  causes of the Corruption of The Definitive Map. I am still suspicious that the ramblers are pussy-footing around this issue, the difference between the CLA and NFU needs to be exposed and used, I do not think the editorials in those publications that are starting to think in the right direction are getting to the real meat of the subject.
 
There is need for opinion from the rank and file of walkers, not just complaints about blocked paths but about where paths ought to be and that is us, learning from the countryside. I try but perhaps I have still to learn how communicate, a few more people doing it might help.
BWW
Their Land is in Our Country.

ninthace

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Re: Footspaths lost
« Reply #20 on: 14:07:08, 04/11/20 »
I don't think you need to be a member to volunteer your time or donate BWW.  Perhaps, if the routes found by the Ramblers Lost Ways project coincide with some of your own, you may get some way to achieving your long term goals.
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barewirewalker

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Re: Footspaths lost
« Reply #21 on: 14:26:39, 04/11/20 »
I agree
Then the need would be to move on from lostways to new ways. You did not seem to quite understand the gist of the topic resulting in the term offset pavements or perhaps you were testing my powers of explanation. The New ways would include stepping over a fence or hedge to provide safe connection between ways avoiding traffic, just bring forward an 18th century practice to a 21st century need.  ::) ;D
BWW
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pdstsp

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Re: Footspaths lost
« Reply #22 on: 14:35:03, 04/11/20 »
I've not joined - but you can volunteer and donate without being a Rambler - I am afraid I have no interest in being a member, but would like to assist in this. 

ninthace

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Re: Footspaths lost
« Reply #23 on: 15:49:27, 04/11/20 »
I agree
Then the need would be to move on from lostways to new ways. You did not seem to quite understand the gist of the topic resulting in the term offset pavements or perhaps you were testing my powers of explanation. The New ways would include stepping over a fence or hedge to provide safe connection between ways avoiding traffic, just bring forward an 18th century practice to a 21st century need.  ::) ;D
I understood what you were getting at, once we had worked out it was not another OS glitch.  Just not excited by it  O0
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Andies

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Re: Footspaths lost
« Reply #24 on: 17:43:34, 04/11/20 »
The map on the Ramblers site is very limited and you can't make any detail out. Is that what you were referring to pdstsp?
I would be very interested to see what paths they think they have identified in my area but I assume you need to sign up to see more?
« Last Edit: 18:58:55, 04/11/20 by Andies »

pdstsp

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Re: Footspaths lost
« Reply #25 on: 22:32:03, 04/11/20 »
The map on the Ramblers site is very limited and you can't make any detail out. Is that what you were referring to pdstsp?



Yes, sorry if I wasn't clear. The detail is sadly lacking  but it is possible to identify bits here and there.

barewirewalker

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Re: Footspaths lost
« Reply #26 on: 10:52:27, 05/11/20 »
 This is the Ramblers plan;Millions of 's of public money were spent on Natural England's Lostway Project to collect evidence that there is legal proof to reinstate lostways on the definitive map.


Quote
Identifying potential lost rights of way is just the start of a long process to put them back on the map. There are four more steps to saving them:
  1.  Prioritise those paths which add the most benefit for people.
  2.  Research individual paths to find out if they can be saved.
  3.  Build applications based on historical evidence.
  4.  Submit applications by 1st January 2026.
There is plenty of scope to prepare a massive document of anecdotal evidence to support No.1 but  2 and 3 have been covered in the counties Natural Englands Project and this was hushed up, Why?

 
So what's missing;
The CLA will wait till 2026 then fast track all the applications so that the responsible applicants are caught carrying the costs, using the wealth of individual landowners, who have been brainwashed into thinking RoW devalue land. But who is responsible for these lostways, it is the County Councils, who allowed the interest of local landowner's to Corrupt the creation of the Definitive Map.


Corruption, Corruption, Corruption has got to be exposed. There are 49,000 miles of it that shows the will of Parliament was ignored.


The CLA's opposition, which is well documented, this needs to be discredited.




BWW
Their Land is in Our Country.

Andies

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Re: Footspaths lost
« Reply #27 on: 14:43:44, 05/11/20 »
As I have said before the current system of getting ROW onto the definitive map is too onerous. A simpler system is needed with a lower evidence threshold and a presumption in favour of the potential ROW rather than what currently exists.
I struggle to see how much of the 1,918 miles of lost ways identified by the Ramblers project in Suffolk will actually result in routes making it onto the definitive map. This view is echoed by the Suffolk Area Ramblers Footpath Officer who in the autumn newsletter refers to the extensive work undertaken by John Andrews in Suffolk over 50 years researching and having successfully put hundreds of ROW onto the definitive map, and suggesting that almost all sources of historic evidence have been fully examined in that respect.
They suggest there may be a few possible routes but if they don't see this as a viable option to getting these through the current system something needs to change.
Consequently I think the argument must be made in the light of the 49,000 miles figure that the system is not fit for purpose and probably never has been. Some would say it's corrupt. The Ramblers shouldn't just push for a delay of five years in the 2026 deadline but rather for a new system of reviewing claimed ROW that is based on realistic levels of evidence underpinned by common sense, and perhaps the requirement for landowners to prove that a ROW doesn't exist rather than the claimant proving it does  O0
« Last Edit: 14:50:30, 05/11/20 by Andies »

barewirewalker

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Re: Footspaths lost
« Reply #28 on: 13:44:10, 06/11/20 »
I like your line of reasoning, I hope more read and reflect than make comment.
A simpler system is needed with a lower evidence threshold and a presumption in favour of the potential ROW rather than what currently exists.
....................... , and perhaps the requirement for landowners to prove that a ROW doesn't exist rather than the claimant proving it does  O0
If the landowner lobby were maneuvered into admitting the corruption of the DM, this would be an obvious progress beyond that.


I still think that the access network is an under performing national asset that earns the national economy much more than has been yet measured. The extent that the reluctance of the landowner to admit to sharing the countryside by an unwillingness to first recognize the 49,000 miles should be shown on the nation's balance sheet.
BWW
Their Land is in Our Country.

ninthace

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Re: Footspaths lost
« Reply #29 on: 14:22:04, 06/11/20 »
The first step is to get the lost paths reinstated in the Definitive Map.  This is a paper exercise.  I would have thought that the burden of proof issue was fairly straightforward given where the data on these lost ways are drawn from.  The sources are documentary rather than anecdotal.  Here is the old map on which the path is shown,  here is the Definitive Map on which the path is missing.  The only reason why a path should not be accepted onto the Definitive Map should be that it is no longer physically possible e.g. a housing development, industrial estate, reservoir or motorway in the way.


Once they have been accepted onto the Definitive Map the rest can follow in slower time and the paths that need to be, can be reinstated in order of those that offer greatest benefits first.  How this is done and how it is funded can be argued about once the Definitive Map has been updated.


IMHO the addition of other lost ways that are not marked as FPs on the old maps and the creation of new through routes is a separate issue requiring a greater burden of proof.

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