Author Topic: If YOU was the landowner...  (Read 1393 times)

Mel

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If YOU was the landowner...
« on: 12:44:59, 14/11/20 »
There have been many topics on trespassing from a walkerís point of view, mostly negatively bemoaning any confrontation or wrongdoing by the landowner.  So, shoe on other footÖ
 
Letís say, youíre a farmer.  Your family has owned the land you farm for 5 generations.  It is a mixture of arable and livestock farming. 
 
There is an official PRoW which goes along a neighbourís farm track and through some woodland which also belongs to them.  The PRoW stops in the woodland.  The woodland butts onto one of your crop fields with a wide wildlife margin.  This field has no PRoW across it but the opposite end opens out onto a quiet country lane with another PRoW across another of your fields only 100 yards up the lane. 
 
Scenario 1:  One day you see two guys, maybe in their 30s, and a dog walking out of the woodland and along your (non RoW) field edge.  They have rucksacks on.  The dog is off the lead but seems well behaved enough.
 
What do you do?
 
.. and why?

ninthace

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Re: If YOU was the landowner...
« Reply #1 on: 13:02:37, 14/11/20 »
How is access gained from the woodland with the PROW to the field without a PROW?
Solvitur Ambulando

shortwalker

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Re: If YOU was the landowner...
« Reply #2 on: 13:02:57, 14/11/20 »
I would remind them that there is no ROW across the field and also ask them to put the dog on a lead. Whilst I wouldn't insist they turn back I would ask them not to do it again.


Reasoning: At the end of the day it is my land, I have created a wildlife margin and that is just that, a wildlife margin. Having people walking it just defeats the object of having it. Same reason for asking the dog to be on a lead.

Bigfoot_Mike

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Re: If YOU was the landowner...
« Reply #3 on: 13:06:35, 14/11/20 »
I donít think there is a simple black and white answer here. If the wide field margin is truly for wildlife, walkers, particularly those with dogs, may disturb the wildlife and negate its positive impact.


I am not of the mind set that I want to walk somewhere and will do so whether I am on private land or not. I do agree that more access to open country is required, but I am not sure that trespass is the way to go. Perhaps lobbying for a change in the status of lost ways or for more open access, as we have in Scotland, would be a better option. We could definitely make government grants for land management dependent upon opening up access. Unlike some others on here, I donít believe the size of the land someone owns should necessarily affect whether the public have the right to walk on private property. That smacks more of jealousy to me (I donít own acres of land by the way). I did know someone who took part in the Kinder Trespass in the 1930s - he was an amazing guy who used to cycle from Manchester to Snowdonia on a Friday evening for a weekend of climbing before cycling back. He was one of the least confrontational people you could ever meet.


We need to mobilise a popular campaign to establish a new paradigm and try to bring all stakeholders along, rather than promote confrontation.

ninthace

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Re: If YOU was the landowner...
« Reply #4 on: 13:11:50, 14/11/20 »
I would remind them that there is no ROW across the field and also ask them to put the dog on a lead. Whilst I wouldn't insist they turn back I would ask them not to do it again.


Reasoning: At the end of the day it is my land, I have created a wildlife margin and that is just that, a wildlife margin. Having people walking it just defeats the object of having it. Same reason for asking the dog to be on a lead.
Seems fair.  A lot would also depend on past history of trespass in the field.  For example gates being left open, loose dogs, damage done gaining access from the wood and to the field margin (hence my previous question)

We have fields near us that used to be walked although there were no PROWs but there were so many instances of gates being left open, stock straying and dogs running free that the owners have now put up signs stating there is no longer any public access to the fields.
Solvitur Ambulando

pleb

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Re: If YOU was the landowner...
« Reply #5 on: 13:32:16, 14/11/20 »
I'd say  GET ORRRFFF MY LAAAND  ;D
GET ORRRFFF MY LAAAND

Mel

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Re: If YOU was the landowner...
« Reply #6 on: 13:38:20, 14/11/20 »
Thank you shortwalker for answering the question(s).
 
Ninthace - it doesnít matter how access is gained Ė itís clearly possible.  That is the setting and scenario.  So what would you do, and why?
 
Bigfoot Mike Ė this isnít another discussion about the rights and wrongs.  What would you do if you was the landowner in the above scenario, and why?
 
Pleb Ė and why would you say it?
 
 
 
Donít forget, this is Scenario 1.  Tune in next week for Scenario 2.
 

Andies

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Re: If YOU was the landowner...
« Reply #7 on: 14:28:22, 14/11/20 »
If I was the landowner in the scenario you describe I would have looked at whether a PROW should have existed across the field in question as the way you described it suggested a dead end path to the woodland and then a potential  missing section of ROW that led to a road and further ROW. If the evidence suggested a lost way then I would have asked to have that designated as such, and consequently there would be no issue going forward with anyone walking the ROW.
This type of missing sections of ROW is one of the priorities of the Ramblers lost ways project. It is an all to common anomaly of the definitive map that occurred most commonly at parish boundaries.

pdstsp

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Re: If YOU was the landowner...
« Reply #8 on: 14:31:08, 14/11/20 »
Think I may them to put the dog on a lead to protect the wildlife - a dog off the lead may well stress other animals even if well trained, (well mine do, but then again they're not particularly well trained) and then wish them well - I simply don't understand the wish to keep people off the land at all costs if no damage is being done.

shortwalker

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Re: If YOU was the landowner...
« Reply #9 on: 14:36:24, 14/11/20 »
If I was the landowner in the scenario you describe I would have looked at whether a PROW should have existed across the field in question as the way you described it suggested a dead end path to the woodland and then a potential  missing section of ROW that led to a road and further ROW. If the evidence suggested a lost way then I would have asked to have that designated as such, and consequently there would be no issue going forward with anyone walking the ROW.
This type of missing sections of ROW is one of the priorities of the Ramblers lost ways project. It is an all to common anomaly of the definitive map that occurred most commonly at parish boundaries.


But we are being asked to look at this from a landowners point of view. Why would I as a land owner go through the hassle of making it a ROW. I might just turn a blind eye, but making it a ROW may have financial implications to me.

shortwalker

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Re: If YOU was the landowner...
« Reply #10 on: 14:44:38, 14/11/20 »
Think I may them to put the dog on a lead to protect the wildlife - a dog off the lead may well stress other animals even if well trained, (well mine do, but then again they're not particularly well trained) and then wish them well - I simply don't understand the wish to keep people off the land at all costs if no damage is being done.


Because as much as you may not like the idea, a lot of walkers are not what I call country friendly. A lot of the paths I walk on have signs saying keep dogs on a lead and generally most do not.


Many footpaths I walk on through fields have just got wider and wider as people move from the path as it gets muddy, making the "path" wider and by default making the usable smaller.


Added to which gates being left open, rubbish being left behind, damage to walls and fences etc.

pdstsp

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Re: If YOU was the landowner...
« Reply #11 on: 14:49:08, 14/11/20 »
I think you are moving the discussion away from Mel's question.

shortwalker

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Re: If YOU was the landowner...
« Reply #12 on: 14:53:36, 14/11/20 »
Further to my last post, as landowner I may not see all the people who walk on my land, what I will see is the damage that can be caused. So whilst the vast majority may walk my land with no problem, I will only see the damage left behind. Therefore to me all walkers cause problems.


I being a landowner talk to other landowners about the problems I have had, and low and behold they have the same problems.



Can some of you now see where the issues may arise.

shortwalker

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Re: If YOU was the landowner...
« Reply #13 on: 14:55:17, 14/11/20 »
I think you are moving the discussion away from Mel's question.


But isn't that what discussion forums are for?


pdstsp

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Re: If YOU was the landowner...
« Reply #14 on: 14:59:26, 14/11/20 »
This particular thread is for us to respond on a specific circumstance, general discussion of trespass is on many other threads.