Author Topic: An interesting read?  (Read 2261 times)

Andies

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Re: An interesting read?
« Reply #30 on: 12:52:15, 26/11/20 »
There seems to be a considerable correlation between "black holes" and large estate's in this part of West Suffolk. I suspect the entitlement is more engrained and stems very much from the estate often being an entire village or more. In the areas where population growth has occurred the old estates are no more having cashed in big time for development land. Particularly true along the A14 corridor, but in the still quiet rural areas the old estates persist, with even now a firm hold on local governance, and usually a minor title to boot ::)
The corruptive influence manifests itself in the figures: Suffolk currently has about 3,500 miles of rights of way, which sounds great, but the recent Ramblers' lost ways project suggests another possible 1,900 miles. As a generalisation that means 35% have still not made it onto the definitive map 70 years after it was established. Hardly a ringing endorsement for the system we are supposed to now use to get those 1,900 miles onto the definitive map by 2026. That in itself doesn't tell the true story as very many of those 3,500 miles have been added through the hard work of people like John Andrews in recent years as they never made the initial drafting of the definitive map. The problems are immense and as I have often said we need a revised system that makes it must easier to right the wrongs of the past, one that has a presumption in favour of the right of way rather than the onerous requirements that the current system requires to prove a missing route. I am not holding my breath on that one  :(
I have a particular interest in one villages rights of way and am in the process of investigating some lost ways therein. To that ends I have requested sight of the original county council file in respect to the establishment of the definitive map and  a copy of their abandoned 1979 review file for that parish from the Records Office.  Apparently these files run to many pages but I am interested to see what they show  :-\

Although some the frightening descriptions of intimidation are long past, it is one of the fears I have if the criminalization of trespass comes into law however remotely, Andies' own experience shows that the attitudes are still there.

The incident I referred to was sadly just one of three that occurred in the space of a couple of weeks. Two involved estate type pheasant shoots and a third a lone rifleman. The latter was infact the most concerning given the nature of the shooting and especially his manner on confronting him. Threats to call the police there and then eventually forced him to see some sense, but certainly not an individual that should be allowed a pea shooter let alone a rifle. But that's another story  :-X

Roburite

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Re: An interesting read?
« Reply #31 on: 13:59:51, 28/11/20 »
Thanks Andies for starting this thread that I hadn't seen until today. John Andrews review of a life trying to save PRoW is a good read and heartening.  The blog by Hugh Craddock is something of a turn off but it illustrates just how much work one may have to put in if one were to try to do the same. That's a pity really because I was thinking of applying for some DM modifications. "How hard can it be?" I thought. Well now I know.
I always welcome BWW's posts, it's good that someone here reminds us that we need to keep fighting for our access just as those in the past have done.

Andies

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Re: An interesting read?
« Reply #32 on: 21:18:07, 28/11/20 »
Glad you enjoyed the link Roburite. Being from Suffolk I obviously identified with John Andrews story and he has been kind enough to offer me some advice in recent years.
Like you say much of the material on the Hugh Craddock blog gets rather technical and whilst some is interesting I think you really need to be in deep to understand this.
Don't be put off re putting in DM modification orders if you have the evidence. When I started looking into matters I thought it would be straightforward but quickly realised as I investigated that it was a lot more than just looking at some old maps. With some guidance from John Andrews and a most useful reference book I have been looking into some lost ways, but it is a slow process. It is my intention that when I think I have enough to substantiate a claim that I will run this past John first and if he thinks I have enough then I will submit it through the Ramblers as they have the backup to support an application.
If you think you have a good claim I would contact the local Ramblers and see what they think. Chances are especially given their lost ways initiative that they may be looking at the same as you are, and may even be able to add more to a claim.  O0

barewirewalker

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Re: An interesting read?
« Reply #33 on: 11:07:20, 29/11/20 »
I always welcome BWW's posts,
Thanks for the encouragement, been a bit thin just recently  O0 I think you have posted subjects related to Much Wenlock, which is in my home county.
That's a pity really because I was thinking of applying for some DM modifications. "How hard can it be?" I thought. Well now I know.
If so, there is an online record of all the lostways under review, I think, the link can be found from the County Council Website. It provides the name of the person appealing it's reinstatement. You might find you have some allies or even be adding evidence.

The incident I referred to was sadly just one of three that occurred in the space of a couple of weeks. Two involved estate type pheasant shoots and a third a lone rifleman. The latter was infact the most concerning given the nature of the shooting and especially his manner on confronting him. Threats to call the police there and then eventually forced him to see some sense, but certainly not an individual that should be allowed a pea shooter let alone a rifle. But that's another story  :-X


Keepers seem to think that carrying a gun acts as a badge of authority.
 This should be disabused at all costs and every opportunity to make those carrying guns in the countryside start to relate their behaviour to modern H&S principles should be encouraged. There are two authorities complaints should go to, RoW officers for intimidation and the Police Firearms Licencing Dept. for questions about the suitability of the person carrying the firearm. Particularly in relation to a Rifle Permit. Some years ago, a link on a walking forum was provided to a discussion on a farming forum about this very subject. The level of awareness of the responsibility required with firearms was so abysmally low, I thought, at the time, there should be far more complaints.
A justified complaint about a rifle permit would probably get an immediate suspension of use.
Personally, if someone approached me with as much as a shotgun unloaded and broken, I would insist he remove the forend and carry barrels and stock apart, before I would be prepared to talk to him.
BWW
Their Land is in Our Country.

Roburite

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Re: An interesting read?
« Reply #34 on: 20:10:07, 29/11/20 »
Hello BWW. Yes I used to live in Wenlock. I moved to North Devon and my comment related to here. I miss Wenlock. I could leave the house and walk all day largely off road.  No such luck here although back roads are very quiet.

barewirewalker

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Re: An interesting read?
« Reply #35 on: 11:20:39, 30/11/20 »
Hello Roburite, perhaps the Hugh Craddock reference to the Devonian Disease has some significance for you. You may not have seen the symptoms in Shropshire as the disease here is more chronic,  wheereas in Suffolk and Devon, they are suffering the acute form of Devonian Disease. This is perhaps why I seem to need to labour the point. Walkers seem to be divided between those, whose appetites are satisfied with menu of their local area, and cannot understand why those deprived are complaining.
A curious carrier of the Devonian Disease is Sarah Slade, a lawyer/landowner from Devon, who is the CLA's adviser on Rights of Way. I read editorials penned by her, when I had access to the monthly Land and Business, and was familiar with the strategies she advocated. During a LAF meeting, a landowner was trying to support footpath closures and I muttered under my breath, "According to the Gospel of Sarah Slade". I was sitting next to the British Horse Society representative, who had been part of the working parties on the Stepping forward initiative and had attended the same meetings withe her. He told me that she is rabidly anti-access.

I believe that part of the coverup of the Devonian Disease is the Sarah Slade's appointment, I am pretty sure that her predecessor was probably a Land Agent, the fact that he was aware of the obvious signs of the disease, is obvious from some of his writing and recognizable by him because of his professional life.

Matter of interest do your know of the significance of 704 to your user name. ;) Perhaps a portion or two might liven up the debate >:D
« Last Edit: 11:26:30, 30/11/20 by barewirewalker »
BWW
Their Land is in Our Country.

barewirewalker

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Re: An interesting read?
« Reply #36 on: 14:02:55, 01/12/20 »
I started to notice the effects of black holes a few years ago, separate from J.Andrews coining the phrase, there graphical effect on others smaller scale maps might be of interest. I have previously mentioned the Mansell Lacy black hole in Herefordshire and used it over 4 years ago but it went with photo bucket's demise.
I thought they were quite informative when viewed in this perspective. I also highlighted the lostways within the black hole or exclusion zone, which ever term serves them best.The wasp stripes are the footpaths recorded by Ordnance Survey which did not make it onto today's maps.

Bridge Sollers would be quite an attractive place to cross the River Wye, but the lack of ways block it quite effectively as being a useful objective for route planning. I have mentioned this before but it falls almost directly under a sight line from the top of the Malvern Hills to the Black Mountains.
Useful or not, well that is for others to say  :coolsmiley: but the intervening landowners will never admit to this, unless people make it known.
BWW
Their Land is in Our Country.

Andies

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Re: An interesting read?
« Reply #37 on: 14:36:29, 01/12/20 »
It will be interesting to compare your "black hole" as detailed above BWW with what the Ramblers lost ways project shows. I suspect as both your and theirs are based on OS mapping they should be very similar.
I remain very sceptical about the way forward as detailed on the Ramblers website, because even if they get a five year extension to the 2026 deadline I cannot believe there is a wealth of evidence to actually put these routes on the map, even where the Ramblers deem them "useful".
I have long concluded that the system needs to change. What is the logic of persisting with a system that has at best failed and at worst been corrupted for seventy years. I had hoped the 49,000 mile figure would be the damming evidence that would force the argument, but as far as I can see the Ramblers aren't taking this route. Is this a missed opportunity?


barewirewalker

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Re: An interesting read?
« Reply #38 on: 16:31:38, 01/12/20 »
I remain very sceptical about the way forward as detailed on the Ramblers website, because even if they get a five year extension to the 2026 deadline I cannot believe there is a wealth of evidence to actually put these routes on the map, even where the Ramblers deem them "useful".
I share your skepticism, not a bad idea to get as many lostways on the list pre-2026, just to keep the landowners on the hop.
I had hoped the 49,000 mile figure would be the damming evidence that would force the argument, but as far as I can see the Ramblers aren't taking this route. Is this a missed opportunity?
Showing the economic force of those 49,000 miles would be a way to discredit the landowners policies. 30 years ago Natural England showed the Pennine Way earned 8000/mile/year and that was direct earnings, the indirect earnings from mental and physical health are only starting to be recognised, as shown here.

Lost ways can open up ways across Shropshire, which are routes waiting for people to walk. On NE 1990 figures that is 400,000/year for every route across the county and I recon there at least 8 prime ways waiting to be discovered, just blocked by a selfish minority who are trying to live pretensions a 100 years out of date.
BWW
Their Land is in Our Country.