Author Topic: If YOU are the landowner ... (Scenario 2)  (Read 665 times)

Mel

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If YOU are the landowner ... (Scenario 2)
« on: 20:21:07, 17/11/20 »
You’re the same farmer/landowner as previously.
 
The RoW from the lane runs through a field up and over a small, grassy/rocky hill.  It is clearly signposted with a finger-board at the lane.  Because of the terrain and proximity to your farm you keep livestock in this field in winter.  This field butts onto the lane and you keep the newly replaced gate securely locked.  People tend to climb over the gate to continue along the RoW despite there being a stone stile built into the wall that the gate butts onto at the corner. It is well weathered and not clearly visible.
 
The council have received another complaint about your locked gate preventing access to the RoW.  An officer is coming to speak with you later this week.
 
How will you propose to resolve the issue?
 

fernman

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Re: If YOU are the landowner ... (Scenario 2)
« Reply #1 on: 20:36:55, 17/11/20 »
Easy! Paint the stile white to make it stand out and put a board on the gate saying "Please use the stile" with an arrow pointer. And put some barbed wire on the gate.

ninthace

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Re: If YOU are the landowner ... (Scenario 2)
« Reply #2 on: 20:38:01, 17/11/20 »
If the stile is on the ROW, which is should be, then the ROW is not obstructed and there is no case to answer.  I would ask for the finger post to be relocated to point to the stile and offer to put up a sign saying the gate is not on the ROW with a request to use the stile provided plus arrow pointing to it.


Edit to add:
It should be apparent from the map that the PROW does not go through the gate if the stile is far enough away not to be seen.  Trouble is too many people do not read maps closely enough.  There is a wealth of detail on an OS map if you know what to look for.
« Last Edit: 21:55:53, 17/11/20 by ninthace »
Solvitur Ambulando

jimbob

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Re: If YOU are the landowner ... (Scenario 2)
« Reply #3 on: 21:01:39, 17/11/20 »
Same as Fernman.
Except as an extra I would ask the officer how he intends to resolve the issue. Just in case he throws a curve ball to my way of thinking.

Oh and as soon as he leaves I would also spread burglar grease along the top of the gate. That's terrible stuff to get off.
Too little, too late, too bad......

shortwalker

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Re: If YOU are the landowner ... (Scenario 2)
« Reply #4 on: 21:38:33, 17/11/20 »
Before the Council official came I would have made the stile more visible. Making sure I took before and after photographs. I would also put a sign up stating do not climb the gate and pointing to the stile.

archaeoroutes

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Re: If YOU are the landowner ... (Scenario 2)
« Reply #5 on: 21:43:41, 17/11/20 »
People climbing over my gate risks costing me money. So I need to work out why people aren't using the stile. Do they not see it? Or is it more difficult to use than climbing over the gate? Or are they being lazy not walking a few extra steps?
I wouldn't want to replace a nice old stone stile* so probably a sign reminding about its existence would be for the best. Of course, there may be a disability background to the access complaint, but that doesn't explain climbing over the gate.

* that's my opinion as a walker, too - I've seen too many disappear in the name of improving access
Walking routes visiting ancient sites in Britain's uplands: http://www.archaeoroutes.co.uk

shortwalker

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Re: If YOU are the landowner ... (Scenario 2)
« Reply #6 on: 22:02:46, 17/11/20 »
People climbing over my gate risks costing me money. So I need to work out why people aren't using the stile. Do they not see it? Or is it more difficult to use than climbing over the gate? Or are they being lazy not walking a few extra steps?
I wouldn't want to replace a nice old stone stile* so probably a sign reminding about its existence would be for the best. Of course, there may be a disability background to the access complaint, but that doesn't explain climbing over the gate.

* that's my opinion as a walker, too - I've seen too many disappear in the name of improving access


That raises an interesting issue as to how accessible a ROW should be. I struggle with lots of stiles, actually being able to lift my knee high enough to get over them. but I am not disabled.

pdstsp

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Re: If YOU are the landowner ... (Scenario 2)
« Reply #7 on: 22:04:48, 17/11/20 »
I would hope that I would consider the issue of accessibility - stone stiles can be slippery in bad weather.  I would hope I would offer to install a kissing gate next to the main gate.  I would definitely signpost the stile.

Dovegirl

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Re: If YOU are the landowner ... (Scenario 2)
« Reply #8 on: 22:20:18, 17/11/20 »
I would put a sign, with an arrow and a request to use the stile, on the gate.  I would make sure the stile wasn't obscured by vegetation.

Bigfoot_Mike

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Re: If YOU are the landowner ... (Scenario 2)
« Reply #9 on: 22:37:56, 17/11/20 »
I’m with Fernman.


I wouldn’t be spending money building an unnecessary kissing gate. There may be an issue about accessibility, but not all routes can be (or should be) accessible to all, or we would end up with railway lines to the top of all mountains / hills / fells.

shortwalker

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Re: If YOU are the landowner ... (Scenario 2)
« Reply #10 on: 23:11:46, 17/11/20 »
I’m with Fernman.


I wouldn’t be spending money building an unnecessary kissing gate. There may be an issue about accessibility, but not all routes can be (or should be) accessible to all, or we would end up with railway lines to the top of all mountains / hills / fells.


True, a kissing gate is about £400, even a bridle gate is about £200 (quick google search, incase any of you think I have a farm suppliers brochure or looked it up in Horse & Hound) that is without fitting and wall rebuild. And as Bigfoot-Mike says, to what ends?




barewirewalker

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Re: If YOU are the landowner ... (Scenario 2)
« Reply #11 on: 11:10:19, 18/11/20 »
Am I allowed to imagine that the stone stile has so particular significance, related to the historical use of the RoW? If so I might in anticipation of the Council Officers visit be working out a solution. Being a farmer of my age, I may have delegated most of the farm work to my son, who is rather anti-access, I would like to pass on the farm in good heart and I suspect my grandson is starting to have ideas rather closer to mine.

Let us suppose the this stile has a name, not widely known, because the legend is nearly forgotten locally. We have always called it Granny Tillotson's Style because she was a legendary local midwife and the Stone Waller built it specially with her in mind, to make easier for her to make her visits at night. A little story that might catch the imagination of today' visitor being able to understand how these old paths came into being.

Because of this legend the field we winter store cattle is known as Tilly's Slang, Field names were important because 50 years ago, when the farm employed 7 families, knowledge of the geography was a day to day necessity for both instruction of the daily tasks and for the workmens' family to know, where they were.

I am thinking a story for a couple of information boards to draw attention to this style and I have a couple more ideas about the mangement of the gate in relation to the requirements of today's access policies.
BWW
Their Land is in Our Country.

Jac

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Re: If YOU are the landowner ... (Scenario 2)
« Reply #12 on: 11:57:01, 18/11/20 »
and so the legend is born ;D and it brought back great memories of a time when I worked behind the bar in a Dorset pub and of a man, Ewart Whitty, and his friend (whose name sadly I can't recall) and the tales they used to concoct for enthral of unsuspecting tourists. Sometimes I would get included, often in a way that would be considered non-pc these days. It was fun.
When I left he hugged me, in tears. Too much PC can make life a bit dull
So many paths yet to walk, so little time left

pleb

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Re: If YOU are the landowner ... (Scenario 2)
« Reply #13 on: 12:01:47, 18/11/20 »
Think I would just put up a sign that sayeth
GET ORRRFFF MY LAAAND

Andies

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Re: If YOU are the landowner ... (Scenario 2)
« Reply #14 on: 15:53:06, 18/11/20 »
I'm not happy. Another baseless complaint from trouble makers. I'm not going to do anything yet but I've got a plan.
When the ROW officer comes I'm going to tell him how I'm the victim of an ongoing campaign of harassment from walkers who clearly are unable to see the stile and signpost. They have in the past left the gate open and my cattle have got out so I now lock the new gate that I needed as walkers broke the old one. I will also tell them about the vandalism and anti social behaviour I have suffered with litter, fires, theft of property, picnicking, and even raves being held in my field.
This is all because of the right of way that shouldn't even be there. It was only ever a route for farm workers and should never have been put on the definitive map. I will tell the officer that I want it removed. I know it won't be but I can just wind up the ROW officer, it's a bit of pay back for him telling me what I can and cannot do on my land.
If he does tell me to take any action I will ignore him, they're under resourced so they're unlikely to follow it up, and if they do I will just ignore them.
Once they're gone I'm going take some real action. I will knock the signpost down and chuck it in the ditch, add barbed wire to the gate, and put up warning signs about the bull and suckler cows to scare a few more off. I will also dig out the ground over the stile and fill the hole with cow muck
I will also tell all my mates about it and suggest they do the same to discourage any Ramblers. They just don't understand the countryside, a bunch of townies who have never done a proper days work in their lives, and yes get off my land  :D