Author Topic: Suffolk Quiz  (Read 2358 times)

shortwalker

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Re: Suffolk Quiz
« Reply #45 on: 13:40:53, 14/12/20 »
BWW I have never said ignore history, it is how we get to where we are. But as I pointed out in the Mandela example earlier, you can't go forward if you constantly look back.


Your signature is "Their land, our country" you posts are full of "how terrible our landowners are" type rhetoric. You could quite easily post your views without always be negative about the landowners.
 

My starting point is, we are where we are. How we got there may be important but in negotiations you have to look forward. To get these "lostways" etc. We (those who want more open access) will have to work with the current landowners not those of generations past. The problem is there are many different groups who all have their own agenda (some of the groups have already been mentioned.)







Let your soul and spirit fly Into the mystic.

Van Morrison

barewirewalker

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Re: Suffolk Quiz
« Reply #46 on: 17:08:09, 14/12/20 »
We seem to have similar interest;
I personally would put some effort into something like Slow Ways.
But we need to understand the potential that is there, to fully understand that potential, we need to know why they are not functioning as they should.  The best we cannot see, because there are parts missing and dare I say why those parts are missing, no we get into this wrangle that has been going on.

You criticize my signature, I adopted it, when I first started to post on forums, I was walking in area where I was meeting as lot of hostility. I realized that each occupier only saw the entity of their own holding and receive no advice or guidance from their professional bodies to understand that their holdings however large is part of something much larger. Bigfoot_mike rightly points out that we are part of a very much larger voting group than the professional bodies lobbying for the occupiers of those small blocks of countryside that are the scars caused by the Devonian Disease.

To understand the pattern created by this in Suffolk, is difficult, because it is so wholesale. Yet I have just been reading some 1980's articles that say Suffolk is far better off for access than Norfolk, yet;
Quote
Now at last we shall be able to see that the mountains of Snowdonia, the Lakes, and the waters of the Broads, the moors and dales of the Peak, the South Downs and the tors of the West Country belong to the people as a right and not as a concession. This is not just a Bill. lt is a people’s charter — a people’s charter for the open-air, for the hikers and the ramblers, for everyone who loves to get out into the open air and enjoy the countryside. Without it they are fettered, deprived of their powers of access
and facilities needed to make holidays enjoyable. With it the countryside is theirs to preserve, to cherish, to enjoy and to make their own.

Minister of Town and Country Planning Lewis Silkin MP,
during the second-reading debate on the National Parks and
Access to the Countryside Bill in 1949.


But can you see those magnificent expanses of water, they are very different to the geography of The Lakes, and view points will be rare like Combermere in Cheshire and the smaller meres in north Shropshire, to exploit the scenic quality of these types of wetland is so unique to it's individual geography. Like Kettle Mere near Ellesmere, jealously guarded by 'private land', yet explicit of it's name as the nature of the location holds the steam of a boiled long into the day. I doubt the current landowner is even aware of this, whoops sorry to be critical. Poor landowner, kiss his injured vanity and make it better. Of course, if were not to be inciting trespass, I could write a walk guide that school children could follow and see for themselves such natural effects.
BWW
Their Land is in Our Country.

shortwalker

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Re: Suffolk Quiz
« Reply #47 on: 18:05:37, 14/12/20 »
We seem to have similar interest;But we need to understand the potential that is there, to fully understand that potential, we need to know why they are not functioning as they should.  The best we cannot see, because there are parts missing and dare I say why those parts are missing, no we get into this wrangle that has been going on.

You criticize my signature, I adopted it, when I first started to post on forums, I was walking in area where I was meeting as lot of hostility. I realized that each occupier only saw the entity of their own holding and receive no advice or guidance from their professional bodies to understand that their holdings however large is part of something much larger. Bigfoot_mike rightly points out that we are part of a very much larger voting group than the professional bodies lobbying for the occupiers of those small blocks of countryside that are the scars caused by the Devonian Disease.

To understand the pattern created by this in Suffolk, is difficult, because it is so wholesale. Yet I have just been reading some 1980's articles that say Suffolk is far better off for access than Norfolk, yet;

But can you see those magnificent expanses of water, they are very different to the geography of The Lakes, and view points will be rare like Combermere in Cheshire and the smaller meres in north Shropshire, to exploit the scenic quality of these types of wetland is so unique to it's individual geography. Like Kettle Mere near Ellesmere, jealously guarded by 'private land', yet explicit of it's name as the nature of the location holds the steam of a boiled long into the day. I doubt the current landowner is even aware of this, whoops sorry to be critical. Poor landowner, kiss his injured vanity and make it better. Of course, if were not to be inciting trespass, I could write a walk guide that school children could follow and see for themselves such natural effects.


You really are just incapable of having any conversation. without having a dig. Just why did you have to put that in  "I doubt the current landowner is even aware of this, whoops sorry to be critical. Poor landowner, kiss his injured vanity and make it better."
Let your soul and spirit fly Into the mystic.

Van Morrison

barewirewalker

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Re: Suffolk Quiz
« Reply #48 on: 10:58:12, 15/12/20 »

You really are just incapable of having any conversation. without having a dig. Just why did you have to put that in  "I doubt the current landowner is even aware of this, whoops sorry to be critical. Poor landowner, kiss his injured vanity and make it better."
Your hard man Shortwalker, mea culpa I am not even allowed the merest quip.

Sadly there are few true hearted countrymen around today. The days, when the 1.25 -1.5 proper farm workers per 100 acres have given way to 0.25-0.5/100 acres and these are now contractors. When the local pub was the clearing ground for censure or approbation, it was difficult for any matter in the countryside to go without comment. I, like those artful cynics of yesteryear, can lay a false trail  ::) . Often there was a message, they were past masters at wrapping it up, so that the hidden message came out in a haze of last nights beer, whilst washing the 56th cow's udder, to the clank of teat clusters and choof-chah of the vacuum line, to a new dawning day.

Of course the gastro-pub in the village is now boarded up, the village sages have long gone and his tied cottage is part of of outer-suburbia. Little hidden gems of the countryside, secret paths and places of contemplation that link up a way of rural paradise have been swiped out by a 50ft machine bed or left to lie under a thicket of bramble and briar.

Those old village sages were harsh critics, the squire was rarely the recipient of their well meaning advice because they smelled of diesel oil or animal faeces, yet their observations were accurate, far reaching but often delivered with an oblique sense of rustic irony.
BWW
Their Land is in Our Country.

Andies

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Re: Suffolk Quiz
« Reply #49 on: 14:21:08, 15/12/20 »
Perhaps if the rights of way provisions in the Deregulation Act of 2015 are enacted life may be more straightforward  :-\

https://www.oss.org.uk/what-do-we-fight-for/footpaths-rights-of-way/the-deregulation-act/
« Last Edit: 14:24:36, 15/12/20 by Andies »

Andies

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Re: Suffolk Quiz
« Reply #50 on: 15:08:46, 15/12/20 »
Spotted some more good news. A great result as I've used a number of these and some of the proposed closures were just crazy, and I suspect motivated by saving money rather than safety  :-\


https://www.ramblers.org.uk/news/latest-news/2020/december/momentum-grows-as-another-eleven-crossings-are-saved.aspx

shortwalker

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Re: Suffolk Quiz
« Reply #51 on: 15:42:29, 15/12/20 »
My grandpa would have been regarded as one of those sages. He was a cowman on the broads marshes, there was very little he didn't know about them. I suppose now he could of called himself a consultant and made a killing. Instead even when he retired people would knock on his door asking about where to see some wildlife etc.


Farming as it was even in the 50's, has largely changed out of all recognition. before I finished working I was involved in the design process of making milking carousels, that meant a cow got on a continuously moving carousel had it's teats cleaned and milked automatically. Some would take 20+ cows at a time.  But to be efficient farming has had to move in this direction.  (the UK population has increased by aprox. 16 million since 1951)


My next door neighbour and his son in law(SIL) have about 150 sheep, but they own no land. SIL wants to be a full time farmer but can't afford to own or even rent a farm. So they rent some fields. The last couple of years both the people rented land off had no interest in farming. One brought the farm to live in and rent the cottages out as holiday lets. Having sheep in the field helps him create the rural idyllic. The other a pure "hardnosed" business man built a "barn" (the only way to get planning permission) that apart from SIL doing his lambing in it for a couple of years will be used for nothing more than storage for some of his other ventures. Having the sheep in his fields allowed him to build a few "shepherds huts" (although we never got to use them) it also meant the sheep helped fertilise the fields that he has now planted trees in (partly funded by the Environment Agency, as they are on a flood plain) that will then go to be burnt in a biomass power station.     


Whilst these two "landowners" may not be the norm they are certainly a rising percentage of our rural communities. Their only affiliation to the NFU is through their insurance policies, and neither certainly have any time for CLA.
Let your soul and spirit fly Into the mystic.

Van Morrison

barewirewalker

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Re: Suffolk Quiz
« Reply #52 on: 13:02:38, 17/12/20 »
Farming as it was even in the 50's, has largely changed out of all recognition. before I finished working I was involved in the design process of making milking carousels, that meant a cow got on a continuously moving carousel had it's teats cleaned and milked automatically. Some would take 20+ cows at a time.  But to be efficient farming has had to move in this direction.  (the UK population has increased by aprox. 16 million since 1951)

You have just stirred a memory of one of the reasons I left farming, the 17 years that were my working life in farming, I had milked with pipline/cowshed, parlour 2x8 and split level herringbone 4x8 graduating to to the later just ahead of the widespread need to make such changes out of economic necessity. The carousel system was in it's infancy yet the huge capital outlay of such an outlay was made steeper by the fact that the buildings, superb relics of the of the agricultural revolution, were totally unsuitable for the next move into and integrated milking herd with a forward thinking mixed farm system. The landowner, then a very good person, left all his management decisions to a firm of land agents, they had forced up the rents with all the advanced investments my family had put into the farm, tied in with another adjacent holding on another estate.

Out of the blue came an offer to relinquish the tenancy, with a change in the law related to succession of tenancy. My father would have chucked it the bin, but I was already having doubts about the character of the son, I would be spending the rest of my working life, being the tenant of. We made them compensate us for both holdings and nothing that happened since has persuaded me that we made other than the correct decision. Unfortunately access issues that might have benefited by the sort of advice that could have come occupiers without the sense of property held by hereditary owners, might have been made that could have not only local benefits but national significance.

I was a third generation active member of the NFU, I had made my county executive adopt a pro-access stance that got passed at national level in my early 20's as my rock climbing experience gave me some insight how times were changing. However the need to create a new career for myself intervened.


You may read the CLA's policy on access differently, when I read it and pieced together attitudes I found in the new generation of countryside occupiers it made the hairs stand up on the back of my neck. That was a few years ago but it is still the active official policy of the main lobby group trying to form our access network to their ideal. The file size of an image version turned PDF is just under 1mb and should transmit as an attachment now, though it was a bit large when I first got it off the CLA's website, when I had a password. This policy was never made available to the LAF I served on for 5 years, despite it having representation by members of the CLA, who may have been closely connected with its creation.
PM me and I will attach it to a return email. I am not into file sharing software at the moment.

Whilst these two "landowners" may not be the norm they are certainly a rising percentage of our rural communities. Their only affiliation to the NFU is through their insurance policies, and neither certainly have any time for CLA.

Not sure of the time scale you are placing these experiences in but the CLA has carried out a huge membership campaign since the mid 1990's and the debacle of the Countryside Alliance has not improved opinions.
BWW
Their Land is in Our Country.

shortwalker

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Re: Suffolk Quiz
« Reply #53 on: 15:56:41, 17/12/20 »


Not sure of the time scale you are placing these experiences in but the CLA has carried out a huge membership campaign since the mid 1990's and the debacle of the Countryside Alliance has not improved opinions.


These experiences are from last year and although I have had no contact with one of the landowners the one who has the holiday lets hasn't changed.
Let your soul and spirit fly Into the mystic.

Van Morrison