Author Topic: Suffolk Quiz  (Read 2683 times)

Andies

  • Veteran Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 561
Re: Suffolk Quiz
« Reply #15 on: 17:51:16, 10/12/20 »
Perhaps the petition approach might attract some interest if lead by the Ramblers referring to the findings of their lost way project for example?
Separately I think I might just contact my MP and see if they buy into "the corruption of the definitive map". I'm doubtful of a positive response but it would be interesting to see what they say. I will hopefully post something about this in due course.

rural roamer

  • Veteran Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1249
Re: Suffolk Quiz
« Reply #16 on: 18:02:42, 10/12/20 »
As youíre in West Suffolk your MP isnít Matt Hancock is it? I think he may have other things on his mind at the moment!

barewirewalker

  • Veteran Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3571
Re: Suffolk Quiz
« Reply #17 on: 19:52:05, 10/12/20 »
I Sell the sizzle and not the sausage.
It's the waft of the sizzle that has the real essence of the story.  From Palmer Tomkinson's barrier to Lord Newborough's bridge, have been trying to tell the story of the fat and wealthy denying you choice morsels of the countryside.
BWW
Their Land is in Our Country.

Andies

  • Veteran Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 561
Re: Suffolk Quiz
« Reply #18 on: 20:23:21, 10/12/20 »
As youíre in West Suffolk your MP isnít Matt Hancock is it? I think he may have other things on his mind at the moment!
No Matt can concentrate on other things, I will be writing to Jo Churchill as I come under the Bury St Edmunds constituency.
When I said West I was thinking of the county of West Suffolk. I am old enough to remember when we were independent  ;)

Bigfoot_Mike

  • Veteran Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2407
Re: Suffolk Quiz
« Reply #19 on: 22:23:08, 10/12/20 »
It's the waft of the sizzle that has the real essence of the story.  From Palmer Tomkinson's barrier to Lord Newborough's bridge, have been trying to tell the story of the fat and wealthy denying you choice morsels of the countryside.
Again, if you want to be heard then you need to get the message right. Do you want to bring to attention the possibility of regaining rights of way, or do you want to satisfy yourself by slagging off the landowners? Pick one of the two. You will get very few people to listen to both. If you are clear and concise and focus on the benefits, you are much more likely to gain support.

shortwalker

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 231
Re: Suffolk Quiz
« Reply #20 on: 01:46:53, 11/12/20 »
If you want to bring change, you need to try and get everyone on board. Going on about corruption (I know there are different meanings, but I have little doubt, most will think of it in monetary terms) and it's all the CLA's fault will achieve nothing.


As I am originally from Suffolk (on the edge of the broads)  I do have an interest in this.


(shouldn't really need to mention that, but some on here just think I deliberately try to stir things (trolling I thing they call it)) ;D
Let your soul and spirit fly Into the mystic.

Van Morrison

Peak

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 183
Re: Suffolk Quiz
« Reply #21 on: 08:19:40, 11/12/20 »
As youíre in West Suffolk your MP isnít Matt Hancock is it? I think he may have other things on his mind at the moment!
[/quote
The only thing on his mind Is trying to make his mind up.

Andies

  • Veteran Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 561
Re: Suffolk Quiz
« Reply #22 on: 11:20:09, 11/12/20 »
Again, if you want to be heard then you need to get the message right. Do you want to bring to attention the possibility of regaining rights of way, or do you want to satisfy yourself by slagging off the landowners? Pick one of the two. You will get very few people to listen to both. If you are clear and concise and focus on the benefits, you are much more likely to gain support.
You make a good point about getting the message right, but it is very difficult to explain why you want to regain those rights of way without first explaining why you need to? IMO the need to is caused by the "corruption of the definitive map" or to be more politically correct the fact that a system to establish this has unfortunately been subject to difficulties over the past seventy years. The problem then comes in explaining why those difficulties arose; was it perhaps due to errors or possibly something that was manipulated by interested parties  :-\

Bigfoot_Mike

  • Veteran Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2407
Re: Suffolk Quiz
« Reply #23 on: 11:49:37, 11/12/20 »
You make a good point about getting the message right, but it is very difficult to explain why you want to regain those rights of way without first explaining why you need to? IMO the need to is caused by the "corruption of the definitive map" or to be more politically correct the fact that a system to establish this has unfortunately been subject to difficulties over the past seventy years. The problem then comes in explaining why those difficulties arose; was it perhaps due to errors or possibly something that was manipulated by interested parties  :-\


I donít think there is a need to explain in detail all the ancient history. The benefit of getting better access to the countryside  is what needs to be sold in my opinion. You could then add that we need to act quickly to ensure that the footpaths arenít lost. The vast majority of people will have no interest in long explanations of what went wrong. They will want to know whatís in it for me and what do I need to dots get it. Any campaign needs to have a clear focus on what it wants to achieve and the to remove all unnecessary clutter that takes attention from the main objectives.

Andies

  • Veteran Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 561
Re: Suffolk Quiz
« Reply #24 on: 12:35:17, 11/12/20 »
If you want to bring change, you need to try and get everyone on board. Going on about corruption (I know there are different meanings, but I have little doubt, most will think of it in monetary terms) and it's all the CLA's fault will achieve nothing.


As I am originally from Suffolk (on the edge of the broads)  I do have an interest in this.


(shouldn't really need to mention that, but some on here just think I deliberately try to stir things (trolling I thing they call it)) ;D
As far as I am concerned you can stir things up as much as you want shortwalker. I have a thick skin in case you haven't noticed and respect your alternative view point even if I often disagree with it  ;)
The difference we have in our views on the way forward is probably not so great I suspect, but we clearly place different emphasis on what has lead to the current position. As a former resident of Suffolk (that possibly explains a lot  :D) I do wonder why you are so forgiving of those who have put us in the current position; should they not be held to account in some way?
Did you read the link I placed on another thread hereon ("an interesting read") specifically with reference to John Andrews account of his years as a Ramblers footpath officer in Suffolk. I thought it made a number of very significant points that should IMO frame our thinking and approach going forward? To what extent did his story match, if at all, your experiences of walking in Suffolk?

shortwalker

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 231
Re: Suffolk Quiz
« Reply #25 on: 14:31:53, 11/12/20 »
As far as I am concerned you can stir things up as much as you want shortwalker. I have a thick skin in case you haven't noticed and respect your alternative view point even if I often disagree with it  ;)
The difference we have in our views on the way forward is probably not so great I suspect, but we clearly place different emphasis on what has lead to the current position. As a former resident of Suffolk (that possibly explains a lot  :D ) I do wonder why you are so forgiving of those who have put us in the current position; should they not be held to account in some way?
Did you read the link I placed on another thread hereon ("an interesting read") specifically with reference to John Andrews account of his years as a Ramblers footpath officer in Suffolk. I thought it made a number of very significant points that should IMO frame our thinking and approach going forward? To what extent did his story match, if at all, your experiences of walking in Suffolk?


To be honest I never had an issue walking in Suffolk (mainly  Suffolk/Norfolk border) I just walked the paths that were/are on the current OS map. To be honest I certainly didn't then and don't to any great extent look at where ROW's may have been.   


  I did take to (not altogether) peaceful protesting when the local golf course wanted to limit our use of common land. So, I am not some, "doff my cap" to the gentry type. But I do strongly believe that if you want to make progress in this or any other subject you do have to look at it from the "other side" as well. Whilst I accept that history is important, you don't make progress whilst raking up the past. (Hence why I take issue with BWW so much)


As for holding people to account, you would need to define that to me. Because where do we stop? My grandfather was a tenant farmer, because in the mist of time, they were prevented from accessing land they owned, by the squire. so their fields became baron and they had to sell to the squire. (It did make parents evening interesting, as for one year my form teacher was the daughter of the squire) Should that squire now be "held to Account"


Should the landowners in Scotland be "held to account" for the Highland Clearances. Should we be "held to account" for Slavery etc.


I am sorry but to me, the use of "held to account" for historical issues is just another "buzz" word.
Let your soul and spirit fly Into the mystic.

Van Morrison

Andies

  • Veteran Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 561
Re: Suffolk Quiz
« Reply #26 on: 17:12:46, 11/12/20 »
By held to account I am really only talking about acknowledging why we have the problems we do with the definitive map. Whilst I can think of a few who might benefit from a public flogging for their past actions those days are unfortunately long gone even in Suffolk  ???
Shortwalker you didn't say what you thought of John Andrews story, assuming you took a look. I would be interested to read your take on it or should this just be dismissed as history?

shortwalker

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 231
Re: Suffolk Quiz
« Reply #27 on: 18:36:34, 11/12/20 »
By held to account I am really only talking about acknowledging why we have the problems we do with the definitive map. Whilst I can think of a few who might benefit from a public flogging for their past actions those days are unfortunately long gone even in Suffolk  ???
Shortwalker you didn't say what you thought of John Andrews story, assuming you took a look. I would be interested to read your take on it or should this just be dismissed as history?


To be honest I haven't read it, I looked at it and just found it was about horses. Maybe a more direct link would have helped.


You perhaps read me wrong, I am not saying we should dismiss history, just that harking back to a time (that usually suites the writers own narrative,) doesn't usually move us forward.


An example of what I mean, is that the world hails Nelson Mandela as the man who made post apartheid South Africa. The role that F.W de Klerk played in moving South Africa forward is largely overlooked. (it was de Clerk who released Mandela, it was de Clerk who legalised the ANC (previously it had been regarded as a terrorist organisation))  But both of them whilst acknowledging the past, had to find ways to move forward. Whilst clearly not on a world stage, the same principles apply to any negotiations of this sort.
Let your soul and spirit fly Into the mystic.

Van Morrison

barewirewalker

  • Veteran Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3571
Re: Suffolk Quiz
« Reply #28 on: 11:08:55, 12/12/20 »
The difference we have in our views on the way forward is probably not so great I suspect, but we clearly place different emphasis on what has lead to the current position. As a former resident of Suffolk (that possibly explains a lot  :D ) I do wonder why you are so forgiving of those who have put us in the current position; should they not be held to account in some way?

I too wonder why it is so difficult, in a forum of those dependent on access to the countryside for our pleasure to level criticism at those, who oppose us. Much of my posts have been based on the 2012 CLA manifesto on Access and my subsequent observations of the resulting attitudes of the opposition.


At the risk of repetition, there are two powerful lobby groups supporting the views of those occupiers of our countryside, who feel they need to control access. One lobbies for property rights and the other for the production of food. The latter needs our support because we are their customers. Andies looks for a way forward, I think that there several ways forward and the ideas that fuel them are interlinked.


Again, if you want to be heard then you need to get the message right. Do you want to bring to attention the possibility of regaining rights of way, or do you want to satisfy yourself by slagging off the landowners? Pick one of the two. You will get very few people to listen to both. If you are clear and concise and focus on the benefits, you are much more likely to gain support.

Too often walkers fail to differentiate between the farmer and the landowner, before we can get to clear and concise focus, there is a need to understand this difference. Perhaps my efforts to draw attention to this difference has been interpreted as slagging off landowners.


I still maintain that interpretation of the 2012 CLA document titled common sense needs more attention by those, who wish to appease the cause of our difficulties and cannot see the link between 1950's Ancient History  ::) , with a current if 8 year old policy.
BWW
Their Land is in Our Country.

Bigfoot_Mike

  • Veteran Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2407
Re: Suffolk Quiz
« Reply #29 on: 11:21:35, 12/12/20 »
I just think there is too much focus on the past and very little about what you actually want to happen. Be clear about this and you may get a lot more support. A campaign for open access in England and Wales or a different way of assessing lost footpaths so that they can be reclassified as ROWs might be worthwhile.  Much of the discussion here seems more like a thesis for a history degree rather than a call to arms to get something changed. There are many ways to get publicity for a cause nowadays, but you need to be very clear what you want. Do you want to draw attention to the misdeeds of yesteryear, when many werenít even born, or promote greater access to the country and classification of more footpaths? I know which I would be more likely to support and suspect I wouldnít be alone.