Author Topic: When Will Non-Local Walks Be Allowed Again?  (Read 2812 times)

Jac

  • Veteran Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2890
Re: When Will Non-Local Walks Be Allowed Again?
« Reply #30 on: 09:54:27, 17/02/21 »
Wow - the whole county plus a 5 mile border would be great in Devon!
But no way would it equate in any way to staying local which surely is the whole point of restrictions.
So many paths yet to walk, so little time left

Skip

  • Veteran Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 505
Re: When Will Non-Local Walks Be Allowed Again?
« Reply #31 on: 11:02:30, 17/02/21 »
. . . I park in one of three parking spaces outside of my city . . .

The government's guidance states: "Staying in your local area means stay in the village, town, or part of the city where you live."

I suspect the police might argue that '. . . parking spaces outside of my city . . .'  are not within 'the part of the city where you live' (unless, perhaps, you live near the perimeter of the city adjacent to your parking spaces).


As an aside, that 'stay in the village, town, or part of the city where you live' is not only ill-defined but unfair. Staying in my village would limit me to under a mile from my house in any direction whereas if I lived in the nearest town I'd have an area about four miles by three miles in which to exercise. And who is to say what 'part of the city' means - it's very subjective. Sometimes it will be obvious, sometimes much less so.


There was a piece about this last month in The Guardian which, I think, has been mentioned before. It's worth a read:
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jan/12/stay-local-england-exercise-rule-open-to-interpretation-minister-admits-coronavirus



Skip

Patrick1

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 80
Re: When Will Non-Local Walks Be Allowed Again?
« Reply #32 on: 12:26:23, 17/02/21 »
[/font][/size]It's a bit clearer in Scotland, travel for excercise is allowed if it starts and finishes in the same place and that place is no more than 5 miles from your county boundary.  It has led to a bit of map searching for some, and to complaints from people living in small counties, and envy of those with highland addresses, but at least you know where you are. For me, 5 miles would land me in the sea, and there are large chunks of the county I can't get to without breaking the rules about avoiding public transport (ferries), but actually it gives quite a bit of room for manoeuvre, and at least I know what the lines are, even though I tend to keep more local than I have to.
[/font][/size]


Unfortunately it is a bit more ambiguous than that even in Scotland. This is lifted from the Scottish Government website:
"Exercise can start and finish a place in your local authority area (or up to 5 miles from the boundary of your local authority area), but you should travel no further than you need to reach to a safe, non-crowded place to exercise in a physically distanced way." (italics are mine)
Unfortunately that makes it hard to justify a trip to the other side of the local authority even for those of us who are lucky enough to live in Highland. I have only heard of police action in Scotland, though, for people who are clearly outside their local authorities, unless anyone has other examples.

Ridge

  • Veteran Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8574
Re: When Will Non-Local Walks Be Allowed Again?
« Reply #33 on: 13:32:09, 17/02/21 »
I'm no fan of the current government, my politics are so far to the left that I'm way out beyond deep extra cover. But I don't know how they can frame a law that is both absolutely prescriptive and also in any way fair. Just try it.


You can not take any form of transport to where you exercise.
You can only exercise within 5 miles of your home.
You can only start your exercise within 5 miles of your home and can only travel up to 10 miles from your home.
You can only exercise in your home county/borough/postal area.


All really easy to understand and all would cause uproar on the Forum and elsewhere.

Patrick1

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 80
Re: When Will Non-Local Walks Be Allowed Again?
« Reply #34 on: 14:55:11, 17/02/21 »
I don't know how they can frame a law that is both absolutely prescriptive and also in any way fair. Just try it.
OK, I'll bite! How about "You can exercise wherever you want, only outside and only with your immediate household, provided you at all times avoid coming closer than 2m to anyone outside your immediate household." Being within 2m of others would be fined, being outside on your own in a big open space would not, regardless of where that open space was.


In other words, focus on what really causes transmission - approaching others - not on proxies like travel.

Ridge

  • Veteran Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8574
Re: When Will Non-Local Walks Be Allowed Again?
« Reply #35 on: 15:15:10, 17/02/21 »
Well the 2m meter rule is a rule at the moment so what you have done is abolish any other restrictions and brought in a penalty for breaking a rule we should be adhering to but no one can police.

What do you do if you meet someone coming the other way on Striding Edge?

No one would ever be prosecuted as you see a policeman and you step apart, unless there are going to be undercover officers on hill tops.

Still I personally think that it works perfectly for me and you have my full support but people in Glenridding and Llanberis may not agree. Remember all those 'Tourists Go Away' signs in the summer?
« Last Edit: 15:22:11, 17/02/21 by Ridge »

Patrick1

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 80
Re: When Will Non-Local Walks Be Allowed Again?
« Reply #36 on: 15:25:01, 17/02/21 »
[/size]...What do you do if you meet someone coming the other way on Striding Edge?......people in Glenridding and Llanberis may not agree.


Well, I am, of course, only dreaming. However, the advantage of such a rule - I agree, provided it could be effectively policed - would be that people would automatically avoid places like the ones you mention because of the risk that they may become crowded and hence risk triggering a fine. People would be very careful to ensure they only exercised where there was no risk of them bumping into others, which is, after all, what we're actually trying to achieve.

scottk

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 73
Re: When Will Non-Local Walks Be Allowed Again?
« Reply #37 on: 15:42:36, 17/02/21 »
I am in Aberdeenshire, so a huge area to travel within, but some friends are in Aberdeen which is a different local authority and they can only go 5 miles outside the boundary. Very unfair but Iím not complaining as I can still travel to the Cairngorms. The weather has been such that travel is very difficult anyway and the avalanche risk and snow depth has put me off anyway.
Fingers crossed for a spring like last year and a lifting of the restrictions.
There has been a research paper published which shows there was virtually no chance of Covid transmission while hillwalking. The researchers couldnít find a single instance, as far as I understood the results.
As long as people avoid crowds it should be safe but even up here I saw a group of about 15 hillwalking a few weeks ago. Looked like 2 families but quite unnerving at the moment.

Ridge

  • Veteran Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8574
Re: When Will Non-Local Walks Be Allowed Again?
« Reply #38 on: 15:48:14, 17/02/21 »

Well, I am, of course, only dreaming. However, the advantage of such a rule - I agree, provided it could be effectively policed - would be that people would automatically avoid places like the ones you mention because of the risk that they may become crowded and hence risk triggering a fine. People would be very careful to ensure they only exercised where there was no risk of them bumping into others, which is, after all, what we're actually trying to achieve.
I didn't realise that I would be fined for completely accidentally going within 2m of someone, I take back my support for your proposal. ;)
Under this I can not leave my house without being fined. The pavements here are not 2 meters wide and when I get in to the local countryside many paths run between 2 hedges and are often less than a meter wide.


I know we're only having fun Patrick but I hope it shows the cleft stick our politicians and police are caught in. Let's hope that we can all be back to some semblance of normal by the time the weather picks up, I'm glad to be in lockdown today the weather is awful.

gunwharfman

  • Veteran Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6036
Re: When Will Non-Local Walks Be Allowed Again?
« Reply #39 on: 16:21:03, 17/02/21 »
I've recently watched the old Robert Donat 'The 39 Steps' film on my PC followed by the film 'The One That Got Away' to put me in the mood to perhaps make a hiking dash for it soon after the clocks are changed. Would I even dare? I have imagined me being chased across the moors by the 'boys in blue!' Although it would certainly make an exciting hike and I could live with a £200 fine but definitely not a £10,000 one. OK, maybe not!  :-\

gunwharfman

  • Veteran Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6036
Re: When Will Non-Local Walks Be Allowed Again?
« Reply #40 on: 17:47:31, 17/02/21 »
I'm still being amused thinking of me as the prisoner of war in the film 'The One That Got Away,' up on a ridge and a copper pointing at me and shouting out to his mates"There he is Sarge!" with dramatic music in the background. I think the next line would be "Book him Danno!" or perhaps "You're nicked son!

Are there any similar films to watch, not remakes, but a story of a hiker being pursued by the authorities? One of the Rambo films springs to my mind.

Little Foot

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 257
Re: When Will Non-Local Walks Be Allowed Again?
« Reply #41 on: 18:23:55, 17/02/21 »
I think the police have better things to do than hunting down folk who have driven a few miles from home for a walk.  There are examples of those clearly taking liberties and associated risks. If any one else here is on the UKC website they will know that many were for a few weeks after lock down.  But that seems to have been tamed by natural peer pressure now, rather than fines and police man hunts.

How ever boring it is, it"s not forever.  Well  I sure hope it isn't.

They clearly don't otherwise they wouldn't have fined this woman.  :-\


I presume this story is the one from Crosby beach which is less than a mile from me.  It falls in the Sefton area of the Liverpool city region.  This is a large open green area leading to the beach and is a magnet for hundreds of people every day in normal times, but, in the first lockdown was spectacularly busy, so much so that I only go down there before 8 am with the dogs - any later and it is quite difficult at times to avoid people.  This caused a lot of friction between people visiting and, in particular, those who live in the (very expensive) houses which overlook the beach.  Even when the car parks were closed, people parked on pavements and blocked access etc.  I do not think things have been nearly so bad, in terms of friction, in this lockdown, though it has been busy.  I think the lady came from within the Liverpool city region but not from within the borough of Sefton, which, I guess would have been ok in the police's eyes though, ironically, may have been more than nine miles. For instance my daughter lives in Sefton but is about 11 miles from Crosby beach as the borough is long and thin.


To me the spirit of the rules is to walk from home whenever possible, and I have been doing that through this and the earlier lockdowns - as BuzyG says, however boring it is not forever.  However, I see little to be gained by punishing people who have traveled a short distance. I do not see the attraction of trying to push the "rules" or test the definitions - I'd rather everyone just took it seriously so we can get back to normal(ish) as quickly as possible.

Yes, it probably was as it says Merseyside on the report. It just seemed silly to punish people like this woman when there's idiots in supermarkets refusing to wear a mask but there's no police in sight.

I think focus should have always been on preventing transmission indoors. On the news today it mentioned the overcrowded beaches last year during the heatwaves and how it's been concluded that they didn't result in an increase in cases. There's virtually no risk of transmission outdoors by just being close to someone momentarily so passing someone in the middle of nowhere (or on a beach in winter) is safe.

What's not safe is having only limited stores open and everyone crowding to them. One supermarket apparently made so much money during the panic buying that when customers were limited inside they noticed the drop in takings so have greatly increased the number of people allowed inside to abolish the queues. Imo all shops should have remained open but had a limited amount of people in them. Those who couldn't be bothered to queue would head home. These are the areas the Government/police should be focusing on, instead of the odd walker who is a mile or two out of the imaginary 'local' limit. You just don't get police making sure these supermarkets are sticking to the rules too. It's just a free for all.

Today was a lovely day, it would have been lovely to go for a good walk by the river since I'm off holiday from my job working with the public. I'm getting annoyed at risking my life when it could be preventable but not being allowed to go for a walk miles away from most people. I'm spending the week decorating though anyway, so WORST HOLIDAY EVER!  ;D

April

  • Veteran Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8557
Re: When Will Non-Local Walks Be Allowed Again?
« Reply #42 on: 19:15:48, 17/02/21 »
I think focus should have always been on preventing transmission indoors. On the news today it mentioned the overcrowded beaches last year during the heatwaves and how it's been concluded that they didn't result in an increase in cases. There's virtually no risk of transmission outdoors by just being close to someone momentarily so passing someone in the middle of nowhere (or on a beach in winter) is safe.


I agree totally Little Foot. I was in Tesco earlier and 3 women stood right behind me in the queue at the checkout. I couldn't really move because of other customers or members of staff close by. I tried to ask them to move away but I couldn't get a word in, they were jabbering away, oblivious to me or anyone else.


Today was a lovely day, it would have been lovely to go for a good walk by the river since I'm off holiday from my job working with the public. I'm getting annoyed at risking my life when it could be preventable but not being allowed to go for a walk miles away from most people. I'm spending the week decorating though anyway, so WORST HOLIDAY EVER!  ;D


 ;D  I think all of our days off work are pretty crap at the moment. I'm holding off taking any more holiday until lockdown is lifted.
"Who would've thought...... you are light and darkness coming through" words by Tim Armstrong

Jac

  • Veteran Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2890
Re: When Will Non-Local Walks Be Allowed Again?
« Reply #43 on: 15:10:02, 18/02/21 »
................... I have imagined me being chased across the moors by the 'boys in blue!'    :-\


I'm sure we all have dreams like that at times
So many paths yet to walk, so little time left

pdstsp

  • Veteran Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2206
Re: When Will Non-Local Walks Be Allowed Again?
« Reply #44 on: 15:24:53, 18/02/21 »

I'm sure we all have dreams like that at times


Naughty  ;D ;D ;D