Author Topic: Trespassing to get to Access Land..?  (Read 376 times)

Ditzy

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Trespassing to get to Access Land..?
« on: 08:28:26, 18/02/21 »

 Hello everyone  :)
 
 I've been reading my OS maps to while away the time during the lockdown  >:( , and I've seen two bits of Access Land that can't be gotten to as there's no public right of way so I was wondering how on earth one can reach them without trespassing. :-\
 
 I haven't worked out how to upload images yet, but they're at NY 646148 and SE 122888.
 
 The first is in the Yorkshire Dales National Park if that makes a difference, and t'other has a track leading to it from the main road but it's not a footpath and Google Street View says it's gated.
 
 I've always stuck to public footpaths as I'm not brave enough to go "off piste" but would it be trespassing if I were to cross private property to get to them? Note that I do not intent to break the law :-X , I'm only asking just to satisfy my idle curiosity.
 
 Does anyone know anything about this, please?
 
 Thanks, and keep safe
 
 


Ditzy

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Re: Trespassing to get to Access Land..?
« Reply #2 on: 08:40:42, 18/02/21 »
No answer, but here's links to the locations:




Great! Thanks!

barewirewalker

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Re: Trespassing to get to Access Land..?
« Reply #3 on: 09:02:48, 18/02/21 »
There was a topic on this some years ago, almost the very same words. Strider is right that there is no answer and unfortunately your own respect for property is that barrier which holds you back from the goal of open access.

Illogical perhaps, we have an inherited respect for  'the Lord of the Manor', unfortunately, that position no longer has a grasp on modern needs. To be in the wrong and thus criminal, you must be shown to have caused damage, otherwise, the trespass is a civil offence. If you can override these natural emotions and reach the goal and find good reason for this route then self-justification takes over from guilt.

I had the good fortune to grow up in the countryside, when there were still good countrymen about from both classes, an old poacher told me that good poaching was never known of, a good trespass is undiscovered but the knowledge of it might benefit others. Somewhere in there, there is a criticism about land management that shows the incumbent occupant more at fault than the offender/visitor.  :D
BWW
Their Land is in Our Country.

ayjay

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Re: Trespassing to get to Access Land..?
« Reply #4 on: 09:51:58, 18/02/21 »
.......and don't worry about being prosecuted for Trespass: You can only be prosecuted for Trespass if you refuse to leave when asked.

Skip

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Re: Trespassing to get to Access Land..?
« Reply #5 on: 10:00:21, 18/02/21 »

FWIW, below is what is noted in the legend to 1:25K maps

"Access land portrayed on this map is intended as a guide to land normally available for access on foot, for example access land created under the Countryside and Rights of Way Act 2000, and land managed by National Trust, Forestry England, Woodland Trust and Natural Resources Wales. Some restrictions will apply; some land shown as access land may not have open access rights; always refer to local signage."
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barewirewalker

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Re: Trespassing to get to Access Land..?
« Reply #6 on: 10:18:26, 18/02/21 »
.......and don't worry about being prosecuted for Trespass: You can only be prosecuted for Trespass if you refuse to leave when asked.
Good point.
So always plan a second route, as way out, should you get ordered off, you leave by your intended route onwards and have a route to return by.  It is wise to maintain good cover for at least half the trespass so that the shortest way off is your intended route.
BWW
Their Land is in Our Country.

BuzyG

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Re: Trespassing to get to Access Land..?
« Reply #7 on: 10:30:18, 18/02/21 »
That is a interesting note skip. Never read that before.

As to the dilemma of choosing a route to access land where none is shown as such.  If the gate is not locked and there is no private / keep out signage. Then I would just walk down the track to the land.

Just before lockdown I choose to blatantly walk down just such a track in full view of the farmer/farm hands.  We even chatted and I commented in a matter of fact, but polite way. That the cattle enclosure they had built across the track made it difficult for others to get to the medieval village site, on the accress land beyond it.  They simply acknowledged the conversation and watched as I carfully stepped over the low fence onto the access land.

It was a positive encounter, as I have taken that short link track several times in the past. But was never quite sure if I should.  Had they asked me to go back the way I had come. I would certainly have done so.
« Last Edit: 10:34:57, 18/02/21 by BuzyG »

Ridge

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Re: Trespassing to get to Access Land..?
« Reply #8 on: 10:46:13, 18/02/21 »
It may be that on the ground there is access, either a proper permissive path or one that the locals have made through frequent use.


If you decide to go for a walk down the side of a field or along a track where there isn't a right of way is up to you. I very rarely plan to do so but have done exactly this to get off open access land at The Nab, as I'm sure many people have, and to get to it here
https://www.streetmap.co.uk/map.srf?x=319500&y=528500&z=120&sv=Old+Scales&st=3&tl=Map+of+Old+Scales,+Cumbria&searchp=ids.srf&mapp=map.srf
When descending on the footpath to Old Scales from the north you are greeted by signs telling you that there is no ROW but then the top of the fell ahead is all open access land. I decided that a quick shimmy up the side of the copse to the west and by the time we were on open land even if we were seen from the farm someone would have to be a bloody good fell runner or have his quad bike already running in order to intercept us.

GinAndPlatonic

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Re: Trespassing to get to Access Land..?
« Reply #9 on: 10:56:32, 18/02/21 »
That is a interesting note skip. Never read that before.

As to the dilemma of choosing a route to access land where none is shown as such.  If the gate is not locked and there is no private / keep out signage. Then I would just walk down the track to the land.

Just before lockdown I choose to blatantly walk down just such a track in full view of the farmer/farm hands.  We even chatted and I commented in a matter of fact, but polite way. That the cattle enclosure they had built across the track made it difficult for others to get to the medieval village site, on the accress land beyond it.  They simply acknowledged the conversation and watched as I carfully stepped over the low fence onto the access land.

It was a positive encounter, as I have taken that short link track several times in the past. But was never quite sure if I should.  Had they asked me to go back the way I had come. I would certainly have done so.
In all the time I have walked I cannot recall a negative encounter from anyone , Farmer or person working the land . I used to walk with someone regularly who often complained about Farmers doing this or that thing . I think the reality was that he was just nervous of any imagined encounter and might not know how to deal with it .

In my experience I often get an acknowledgment from Farmers or land workers , unless the land worker is busy and has better things to do than give cheery hellos to walkers..

I have a feeling that landowners near to conurbations can endure vandalism or aggressive acts from some locals who might not respect their own home let alone farmers and farm land . Looking at some of the grafitti , rubbish & other unmentionables strewn around on very local walks leads me to think this.

The further out into relatively unspoiled areas I always feel a more friendly vibe . In my mind I have decided over the years , if asked what I was doing on private land , I would say I have lost my route and would the person tell me how to get back to the nearest footpath...

Virtue is more to be feared than vice, because it's excesses are not subject to the regulation of conscience - Adam Smith

BuzyG

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Re: Trespassing to get to Access Land..?
« Reply #10 on: 10:58:58, 18/02/21 »
Looking at the OP's two location.  One has a clear track to the south. That may be access land. If not sure then  it matches the situation described in my earlier post and worth a friendly challage.

The second has a wood to the south.  I'm trying to work out if that wood is access to it. 

There is a reference here but that is no clearer.

https://getoutside.ordnancesurvey.co.uk/local/maskriggs-wood-eden

barewirewalker

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Re: Trespassing to get to Access Land..?
« Reply #11 on: 11:14:03, 18/02/21 »

Just before lockdown I choose to blatantly walk down just such a track in full view of the farmer/farm hands.  We even chatted and I commented in a matter of fact, but polite way.
It was a positive encounter,
Good country craft  ;)
It is wise to try to understand the type of ownership the land is being managed under. Identifying Estate owned land is usually easy, to a farmer's eye, it is fairly obvious if the estate is being manage internally or tenants still farm. Either way, more contractors are doing farm work, so the land is often being worked by people totally indifferent to, who is walking it.

When I was a child my home farm was 2 miles from my grandfather's farm and my brother and I would often walk between the two. Rarely would we get home without some knowledge of our venture preceding us, amongst the men or in the farmhouse. But then farm staff would be about 1.25 to 1.5 per 100 acres. In reality today the occupiers of our countryside are socially blind, the visitor to our countryside are the real eyes in the country. All the farm cottages that served the holding my family now house commuters of one sort or another.

I have walked with Mrs BWW a quite relaxed 8 mile circular trespass in a 7000 acre X zone, visited probably one of the most important Iron age Forts in the county, found two viewpoints that explained much about the terrain of my county and discovered a visual link between two Peninsular War generals in an afternoon. Only had to hide under a low hanging Yew tree whilst the Owner of one estate talked with his shoot manager for some while. Just well they did not smell my excellent coffee.
« Last Edit: 12:39:52, 18/02/21 by barewirewalker »
BWW
Their Land is in Our Country.

BuzyG

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Re: Trespassing to get to Access Land..?
« Reply #12 on: 11:17:02, 18/02/21 »
It's evident from ten minutes on Google that a number of people walk maskriggs wood.

http://www.summitgood.org.uk/?p=3821

So I would take that route to the second section of land thebOP asked about. O0

LostWays

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Re: Trespassing to get to Access Land..?
« Reply #13 on: 17:04:40, 18/02/21 »
Remember that there is no provision of through routes with access land, and sometimes it is theoretically impossible to get to some areas of access land.