Author Topic: LANDRAGE; The good, the bad and the ugly.  (Read 2707 times)

BuzyG

  • Veteran Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2285
Re: LANDRAGE; The good, the bad and the ugly.
« Reply #30 on: 18:20:14, 25/03/21 »

😂 😂 😂 (Just read one of your contributions to “idiots everywhere” thread, chuckling to myself, thinking “at least once you had spark of confrontation in you”.)


I was fairly certain that reply was coming in this thread.  Don't upset the quite ones.  We tend to be less predictable, on those rare occasions we feel the urge to take up arms. ;)

pauldawes

  • Veteran Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1525
Re: LANDRAGE; The good, the bad and the ugly.
« Reply #31 on: 18:22:27, 25/03/21 »

I was fairly certain that reply was coming in this thread.  Don't upset the quite ones.  We tend to be less predictable, on those rare occasions we feel the urge to take up arms. ;)


Yes, the element of surprise can be devastating

pleb

  • Veteran Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3850
Re: LANDRAGE; The good, the bad and the ugly.
« Reply #32 on: 08:54:44, 26/03/21 »
Happy to report that Land rage is not a term I can relate to.  :)


Perhaps by nature some of us are less confrontational than others. ;)
No farmer/similar has ever said owt to me. Except once to be very helpful.
GET ORRRFFF MY LAAAND

barewirewalker

  • Veteran Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3663
Re: LANDRAGE; The good, the bad and the ugly.
« Reply #33 on: 10:36:19, 26/03/21 »
Why did I tack on to the title the good, the bad and the ugly?

Shortwalker is a bit like the dog, who goes for the light-end of the stick, then when he gives it a good shake it goes out of control. I have repeatedly tried to get an understanding to differentiate between farmer and landowner.
No farmer/similar has ever said owt to me. Except once to be very helpful.

I would not expect to become confrontational with a farmer, why, because true producers have respect for their customers. The occupation of our countryside is also confused by people who have a sense of property that they feel gives them status, and a right to be respected.

Perhaps the good, the bad, the ugly and the ridiculous should have been the addendum.
BWW
Their Land is in Our Country.

Andies

  • Veteran Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 579
Re: LANDRAGE; The good, the bad and the ugly.
« Reply #34 on: 10:53:37, 26/03/21 »
I have certainly never gone out with the intention of causing an actual face to face confrontation, and I would wonder at the motivation of anyone that did. On a handful of occasions over very many years of walking I have unfortunately had it forced on me. That is not to say I haven't tried to calm the situation but when confronted by unreasonable and frankly illegal behaviour I have stood my ground and pointed out that I do know what I'm talking about. Statistically it's probably not going to happen to many people and surely no one wants a good walk spoilt by it  :-X
That extreme form of "landrage" is thankfully extremely rare in my experience; but "landrage" must not just be thought of in the context of actual confrontation with a landowner or other. It takes many forms and this is what I believe BWW is referring to. For example: not reinstating rights of way, blocking/obstructing ROW, excessive private property/keep out signage, misleading signage to confuse and deter, and damaging/destroying official signage. All of these when consciously done by a landowner are symptomatic of "landrage".
The question is of course why do some landowners suffer from the condition? Perhaps it is borne of a sense of insecurity and the often quoted fear of crime. But how often have you as a walker or have you seen another walker committing criminal damage for example? The yobs with anti social intent will make no distinction between ROW or not. Do hare coursers or poachers only use ROW to commit their crimes? Obviously not so why should some landowners view walkers on a par with others intent on criminal behaviour. It doesn't work in my mind as a valid argument against reasonable access. I discussed this issue with a landowner once (not a confrontation just a friendly chat) and when he came out with this fear I pointed out that he should be encouraging more law abiding walkers onto his land. More eyes on the lookout for the dodgy characters and less likely that they would try something with more people around. The landowner conceded that I did have a valid point  :)
There are so many other examples of "landrage" and of course many other theories that can be explored, but I would say to those that think they haven't experienced it that they probably have but just haven't realised what it was :o

shortwalker

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 320
Re: LANDRAGE; The good, the bad and the ugly.
« Reply #35 on: 11:52:06, 26/03/21 »
Woof. ;)
Let your soul and spirit fly Into the mystic.

Van Morrison

richardh1905

  • Veteran Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6864
Re: LANDRAGE; The good, the bad and the ugly.
« Reply #36 on: 12:05:55, 26/03/21 »
I discussed this issue with a landowner once (not a confrontation just a friendly chat) and when he came out with this fear I pointed out that he should be encouraging more law abiding walkers onto his land. More eyes on the lookout for the dodgy characters and less likely that they would try something with more people around. The landowner conceded that I did have a valid point  :)


^ a very good point.
WildAboutWalking - Join me on my walks through the wilder parts of Britain

barewirewalker

  • Veteran Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3663
Re: LANDRAGE; The good, the bad and the ugly.
« Reply #37 on: 13:24:47, 26/03/21 »
Thanks, Andies, you have explained much of my thinking far better than I have been able to. I was hoping that this topic would lead to 2 more constructive avenues of discussion;
Hidden landrage, cause and consequence.


Rural security having additional allies from the a percentage of people, who vastly outnumber the criminal fraternity.
BWW
Their Land is in Our Country.

WhitstableDave

  • Veteran Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1412
Re: LANDRAGE; The good, the bad and the ugly.
« Reply #38 on: 13:57:16, 26/03/21 »
...
There are so many other examples of "landrage" and of course many other theories that can be explored, but I would say to those that think they haven't experienced it that they probably have but just haven't realised what it was :o

Ah, would that be 'unconsciously experiencing' something?

So that when you say it hasn't happened to you, you can be told that it actually did happen - only you just don't know it did.  ;)

Andies

  • Veteran Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 579
Re: LANDRAGE; The good, the bad and the ugly.
« Reply #39 on: 14:32:44, 26/03/21 »
Ah, would that be 'unconsciously experiencing' something?
So that when you say it hasn't happened to you, you can be told that it actually did happen - only you just don't know it did.  ;)
Er...yep.........um.......er no...um......I...er.....pass, next question please  :-[ :-\

barewirewalker

  • Veteran Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3663
Re: LANDRAGE; The good, the bad and the ugly.
« Reply #40 on: 17:01:51, 26/03/21 »
Yesterdays encounter with covert Landrage. Induced by people in Covid 19 restriction seeking a bit of necessary exercise and some solace from the countryside.

P1090930 by Barewirewalker, on Flickr

There 7 or 8 similar signs all gone up., whilst we are forced to observe lockdown, the harmless footfall is heavy enough to show the most insensitive landowner of the public need, damage to crops nil as the field margins are the maximum to yield full payment for Single Farm Supplement. They are long distances from the right of way so they aren't for guidance so they are a statement against harmless visits to the countryside very close to urban dwelling.
This is an area of near a dozen fields of 500 acres, bounded by a busy A-road, exceptionally dangerous B-road and a railway line. There is a large distance of mature field margins, that has given many people mental and physical relief of the past year. The Big House of this landowner is 1.75 miles away on the other side of the railway line.
BWW
Their Land is in Our Country.

richardh1905

  • Veteran Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6864
Re: LANDRAGE; The good, the bad and the ugly.
« Reply #41 on: 17:14:29, 26/03/21 »
I do think that the awarding of farm subsidies should be dependent upon allowing access to field margins etc.
WildAboutWalking - Join me on my walks through the wilder parts of Britain

ninthace

  • Veteran Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7961
Re: LANDRAGE; The good, the bad and the ugly.
« Reply #42 on: 17:42:07, 26/03/21 »
Yesterdays encounter with covert Landrage. Induced by people in Covid 19 restriction seeking a bit of necessary exercise and some solace from the countryside.

P1090930 by Barewirewalker, on Flickr

There 7 or 8 similar signs all gone up., whilst we are forced to observe lockdown, the harmless footfall is heavy enough to show the most insensitive landowner of the public need, damage to crops nil as the field margins are the maximum to yield full payment for Single Farm Supplement. They are long distances from the right of way so they aren't for guidance so they are a statement against harmless visits to the countryside very close to urban dwelling.
This is an area of near a dozen fields of 500 acres, bounded by a busy A-road, exceptionally dangerous B-road and a railway line. There is a large distance of mature field margins, that has given many people mental and physical relief of the past year. The Big House of this landowner is 1.75 miles away on the other side of the railway line.
If the sign is factually correct then while I find it sad that someone feels the need, it does not bother me as under current legislation, I have to no right to be there anyway.  There may be circumstances I do not know about that caused the owner/tenant to put the sign up.

 If it was on a ROW, then I would take a picture and grid ref and report it soonest
Solvitur Ambulando

barewirewalker

  • Veteran Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3663
Re: LANDRAGE; The good, the bad and the ugly.
« Reply #43 on: 17:50:52, 26/03/21 »
Thank Richard, I think that is the first on this forum I think I have a positive response to that.


The need for Compliance has been long been an issue with the implementation of rights of way and payment of SFS. I always supported the calls to enforce compliance rules, yet time and time again the landowner lobby got away with saying it would be bad for cooperation. When the landowner took the chair that was probably one of my many demerits that were the cause of my quick ejection.

Of course, using field margins to improve the access network and make it safer, is a separate issue. A trifle too obvious methinks  ::)

If the sign is factually correct then while I find it sad that someone feels the need, it does not bother me as under current legislation, I have to no right to be there anyway.  There may be circumstances I do not know about that caused the owner/tenant to put the sign up.

 If it was on a ROW, then I would take a picture and grid ref and report it soonest

I agree, Ninthace, did not trouble Mrs BWW either, her rising contempt for a minority group lauded by such programmes as Downton Abbey grows exponentially without any encouragement from me. She observes the groups of people out using these field margins and as a retired acute surgical nurse is sensitive to the benefit they are getting more than myself.
BWW
Their Land is in Our Country.

WhitstableDave

  • Veteran Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1412
Re: LANDRAGE; The good, the bad and the ugly.
« Reply #44 on: 18:10:11, 26/03/21 »
If the sign is factually correct then while I find it sad that someone feels the need, it does not bother me as under current legislation, I have to no right to be there anyway.  There may be circumstances I do not know about that caused the owner/tenant to put the sign up.

 If it was on a ROW, then I would take a picture and grid ref and report it soonest

I agree.  O0

As you say, there may be circumstances that prompted someone to put up the sign. In the last year, there have been several occasions when I've been angered to see dog walkers trespassing on field margins while their dogs have been racing around over the crops.